75 Force No Start Question

spotco2

Cadet
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
26
1999 75HP Force

Cranks and runs like a dream. The engine does not even spin all of the way over before it starts. It really runs like a champ. But...

I've only had the boat since June and it came with a skip. It ended up living at the shop all summer but now has new plugs, rebuilt fuel pump, rebuilt carbs, new water pump and thermostat, new primer bulb and new powerhead gaskets.

The engine runs fine but after a while it will not start sometimes and I can NOT create the problem in the driveway.

The basic scenario is we go out fishing, run the motor for 15-30 minutes, shut it off and use the trolling motor for 15-60 minutes, then start the big motor back up to move to another fishing spot. Do this over 4-6 hours or until the engine decides it hates me and will not start.

The day I got it back from the shop I ran it for about 4 hours like this and had no problems. The following week I took the wife out and we rode for about an hour on the lake, stopped and started fishing. We hit 5 coves and then it would not start. Loaded everything up, drove 25 miles home and it started and ran like nothing was ever wrong.

It's getting fuel. You can smell it and eventually see it in the water if you crank long enough. It's acting like it is not firing at all when this happens.

This engine has 3 CDM Modules (1 per cylinder) and Quicksilver Commander 2000 controls.

I have wiggled everything I can find to wiggle. I have disassembled the controls and checked the kill switch and ignition with a meter and everything appears to be working fine.

It's almost like something is either getting jarred lose on the water and then jarred again on the ride home, or something is heating up and cooling off once it gets home.

I've let the motor run for 2 hours in the driveway on muff's and could not recreate the problem.

The engine does not skip, spit, sputter, hiccup, cough, leak, smoke or anything else while it is running. It just decides not to start for an undetermined period of time.

I'm at a loss here and need some direction.
 

jerryjerry05

Supreme Mariner
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
18,037
Re: 75 Force No Start Question

No real thoughts on what's wrong.Just something to try next time it won't start.
I had this problem.I would tilt the motor all the way up try to start it using the choke/sometimes not.
As soon as it coughs/bucks or starts I shut it off and tilt it down and it starts.
The float levels might need adjusting.
Install a spark tester in line when it does it again to check for spark.
No spark maybe the kill switch,or the stator???
 

fucawi

Banned
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
1,039
Re: 75 Force No Start Question

so whats the possiblilites ...When it wont start wip the plugs out and dry them ( I assume they are surface discharge) or connect a plug tester and check you can get a 1/4 spark in air ..can be difficult to see in daylight. If thats OK you can rule out the spark. Hot engine may be drying the plugs.

If its not spark its fuel ..too much or too little ...idle air 1 1/4 turns out ? float levels Ok and more important are the seats good in the needle valve ?


Air vent on the tank ok ? primer bulb hard ?
 

Eazzy

Seaman
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
71
Re: 75 Force No Start Question

Is this idle air 1 1\4 turns cut in stone or is this a place to start?
 

fucawi

Banned
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
1,039
Re: 75 Force No Start Question

you usually start there and then wind it in ..the engine speed increases and then falters ..so back it out to the peak....Frank ( No 1 God) will tell you that having it too weak will cause major problems as it runs on the idle jets until about 2/3 throttle
 

wolfie-uk

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Dec 8, 2008
Messages
122
Re: 75 Force No Start Question

1 1/4 turns out is the starting point, you then move in small amounts in, say 1/8 turn at a time and let it run for 15 - 20 secs , then a bit more till it runs rough, then you go the opposite way again till runs rough , then you can work out the ideal mid point for optimum running, i always then add 1/8 turnout just for peace of mind
 

spotco2

Cadet
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
26
Re: 75 Force No Start Question

Thanks for the replys.

I really do not think it is a fuel issue. The engine runs to well before this happens as well as when it starts back up. Also there are 3 carbs that have all just been rebuilt and it would take at least 2 of them to completely kill the engine so that it does not even spit and sputter trying to run.

The few times (about 5 maybe 6) that it has stuck me I have not had any tools with me to pull plugs or test for anything.

I really think that this is an intermittent electrical issue and those are the hardest to find because it is difficult to duplicate the problem.

What exactly tells the CDM modules to fire? Where do they get their signal from?

I do not think they are getting that signal and would like to be ready to test that if I can duplicate the issue.
 

jerryjerry05

Supreme Mariner
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
18,037
Re: 75 Force No Start Question

To set the air screws.
Into the bottom(gently).
Then out 1 and 1/8 turn.Then motor warm,in gear.
The rpm's at 750/800.
Then in till it coughs/bucks/kicks.Then out 1/2 turn.
Do this twice.Then leave it.
 

z31red

Recruit
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
2
Re: 75 Force No Start Question

Have you checked the charging ckt. A low battery can keep the motor from srarting.
 

Jiggz

Captain
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
3,909
Re: 75 Force No Start Question

Thanks for the replys.

I really do not think it is a fuel issue. The engine runs to well before this happens as well as when it starts back up. Also there are 3 carbs that have all just been rebuilt and it would take at least 2 of them to completely kill the engine so that it does not even spit and sputter trying to run.

The few times (about 5 maybe 6) that it has stuck me I have not had any tools with me to pull plugs or test for anything.

I really think that this is an intermittent electrical issue and those are the hardest to find because it is difficult to duplicate the problem.

What exactly tells the CDM modules to fire? Where do they get their signal from?

I do not think they are getting that signal and would like to be ready to test that if I can duplicate the issue.

The trigger ckt, located below the flywheel with the stator provides a trigger or signal to the CDM when and which plug to fire. The CDM's also get their electrical power from the charging ckt- the stator. The trigger has a ground connecting wire which is vital to its operation. Since none of the plugs fire (when the engine won't start) the only thing common between each plug is the stator and trigger ckt. You might want to check the connector associated to both ckts. And since the problem is intermittent, you will have either wait until the problem shows up again or do a 100% check (clean and verify) of the entire stator and trigger ckts connections.
 

spotco2

Cadet
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
26
Re: 75 Force No Start Question

Thanks Jiggz for explaining that to me.

I was able to find that circuit on the schematic and now know what wires to start looking at for lose connections.

Is there any way to test the trigger?
 

Jiggz

Captain
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
3,909
Re: 75 Force No Start Question

Here's some procedures from my maintenance manual about trigger coil testing. The wire colors may not be the same but the process is. So you need to make sure you ID your trigger wires correctly. There should be 4 wires coming out of the trigger coil assembly with three wires going to the CDM's and one black wire for ground. As for the stator, there are also 4 wires but two goes to the rectifier for the charging system and the other two in parallel with the three CDM's. Don't overlook the black wires coming out of the CDM's which is connected to the kill switch. If this accidentally gets in contact to ground none of the CDM will fire even with a good trigger and stator connections.
Trigger Coil Test.jpg
 

TwoFish

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 7, 2010
Messages
373
Re: 75 Force No Start Question

I have a 1998 75. Slightly different with a single carbie. A couple of things you could check.

The wires on the choke solenoid on my motor nearly rubbed through on the engine block because the rubber spacer, holding the solenoid in place, wore away. This caused the solenoid to fall occasionally making the motor hard to start. This is a problem with the 1998 model. Not sure about the 1999 model.

Corrosion in the main loom plug at the back of the motor. Disconnect the plug and use a multimeter to check resistance between the pins. There should be no resistance. if there is you have moisture or corrosion there.
 

spotco2

Cadet
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
26
Re: 75 Force No Start Question

Good info!

Thanks folks. I hope to have time to work on it this week.
 

Stefano

Cadet
Joined
Jan 29, 2010
Messages
19
Re: 75 Force No Start Question

i have a 99 force and was having the same problem. rebuilt carbs 3 times changed plugs ,wires you name it i tried it. Check if you have a solenoid primer connected to your carbs , when facing the carbs on rite side and has a button on top and two hoses one connected to your cylinder it can be the problem.
 

goodtimesfishing

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
84
Re: 75 Force No Start Question

look at wires closely to be sure you have not rubbed thru the insulation. I had this happen to a wire going to cdm, and caused intermittant problems with starting.
 
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