70hp johnson problems NEW CARNAGE PICS

[dmoriarty51]

Re: 70hp johnson problems NEW CARNAGE PICS

yeah, he agreed that this wasnt likely a vro problem, he just suggested it. im not 100% certain i will yet, it so convenient to just go to the gas station and fill it up

 

[dmoriarty51]

Re: 70hp johnson problems NEW CARNAGE PICS

finally got back to me with a price of just over $1300 so the question is should i?

i think the boat is worth it, its on a crestliner 1650 proam, side console. so its an aluminum v bottom, its got a few bumps and bruises, but is solid other than needing the floor pulled and replaced correctly. previous owner slapped new over old, so the boat is carrying all that extra weight.

i, thinking i should go through with it..... there are a couple motors for sale in the area both a little larger but within the boats range but 10+ years older than what i have already for similar money to the rebuild, which aside from electrics would give me a mechanically new motor.

 

[mikesea]

Re: 70hp johnson problems NEW CARNAGE PICS

The price is fair enough,is the rest of the eng.in good shape,not corroded ,TNT oK.Will the guy be putting 3 new piston kits,new bearings new gaskets ,goin thru carbs to see if there was lean condition at the carbs(though you said you had a fuel leak ,that may have been a factor if one cyl wasnt getting fuel/oil ,before others ran out).On an eng .of that yr.my shop would also install a new VRO if customer wanted to keep the system(charged cost for the part)You mentioned doing away with the VRO,I personally would,That would insure the oil gas mixed properly(though,they have it pretty well protected these days,I like assurance)Reaity is you cant buy a good used runner for that price ,yours would be almost as new.We also changed impeller for peace of mind as well.Our price would have been a bit more,like $1800 $600 x 3cylinders.DONT FORGET TO CHANGE THAT FUEL LINE

 

[dmoriarty51]

Re: 70hp johnson problems NEW CARNAGE PICS

all the rubber hose will be getting replaced, not taking any chances on that.

im still undecided on the vro situation. and i have no idea what a new vro costs. if i do away with it, what should my mix be?

as for the rest of the motor yeah its pretty clean tilt trim seems to be fine. could use a new prop but its not terrible. and it seems to move the boat just fine.


i think im answering my own question here about rebuilding being worthwhile

 

[mikesea]

Re: 70hp johnson problems NEW CARNAGE PICS

your regular mix would be 50-1.However .after rebuild it will be 25-1.your rebuilder will give you proper break in procedure and oil/gas mix instructions.

 

[dmoriarty51]

Re: 70hp johnson problems NEW CARNAGE PICS

well, i never revisited this with an update.... i got the motor rebuilt and gone through given a clean bill oif health the first week of august.. and spent every weekend day and a couple week days running it easy in accordance with breakin guidelines...and all has been great probably 40 gals of fuel burned...and am starting to run it more normal than easy all the time

yesterday on about a 5 minute run up river to the dock about 4700rpm or so, it changed tune and dropped rpm, i throttled back imediately, and in doing so it shut off......

im pissed at this point as this is essentially how the blown cylinder started to occur, complete with rufusing to turn over for a few seconds, it refires and i go at fast idle to at least get off the main channel, and hopefully into the slough cut where the ramp is, we could paddle from there..

we get just inside the point, and vro alarm sounds off, on off on off a second or so at a time... i shut it down and flagged the boat behind us for a tow, and called the guy that rebuilt it...

any ideas folks? vro was deemed functional and kept in use. it is using oil from the tank. a quick search tells me that an on off 1 sec interval alarm is an oil flow issue?

wish me luck guys, its getting hard to keep pouring money into this thing

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: 70hp johnson problems NEW CARNAGE PICS

Couple of questions: Did you check your oil tank for water? Was you running breakin oil also? Was water mod done to block? If yours was a bridgeport block was mod done to port? From your picture posted of piston it does not look lean.

 

[dmoriarty51]

Re: 70hp johnson problems NEW CARNAGE PICS

i have not checked the oil tank for water, the tank is not exposed to the elements, its in the storage area with the battery, and i use a cover on the boat....

the first 28 gals (first tankfull) had oil added by the rebuilder he said run it easy and for short periods allowing cool off for 7-8 hours of run time he had already done some running in a tank and in the river with it. he did not say to continue adding oil after that tank. and said the vro was working correctly

dont know what you are talking about with water mods, and not sure what a bridgeport block and mod is... the engine is a 95 block is date coded 94 cat recall what month but i think its in this thread somewhere

so if that cylinder didnt go lean when it blew up in june, what did happen in your opinion? everyone else seemed to agree it went lean began to detonate and well pictures tell the tale

 

[Joshua Nichols]

Re: 70hp johnson problems NEW CARNAGE PICS

Lean seizure from raw fuel will wash all the oil from the bottom side of the piston.. It will look shiny and clean..

 

[dmoriarty51]

Re: 70hp johnson problems NEW CARNAGE PICS

well, my mechanic/rebuilder has informed me that it is still getting oil, and is not overheating. he did get it to repeat the alarm after running for 30 mins or so of running.

but hasnt decided if the issue is at the vro pump or something to do with the oil tank and related float/sensor

so sounds like it may be false alarms, he was going to do a couple other checks today.

that said when you get that intermittent alarm for oil flow/level, will it force a limp mode consisting of reduced rpm?


if so then when it dropped rpm the alarm was infact sounding i just didnt hear it? and upon rapidly closing the throttle while it was attempting to save itself made it sort of flood out and die completely? thus requiring a couple attempts to get it to turn over and refire?

to be clear the original carnage pictured above was due to a fuel line leak at the middle carb and has been repaired.. page 2 of this thread is entirely post rebuild, new rings, new piston, new bearings, different head as mine was to badly beaten, and of course all carbs rebuilt. that made nasty dry sounds, this more recent issue did not, just fell off song and started to drop rpm, then i cut it off

 

[dmoriarty51]

Re: 70hp johnson problems NEW CARNAGE PICS

well, it continued to act up saturday after being given a clean bill of health again.

ran maybe 10 mins at cruise speed.....and again changed song and dropped rpm luckily i had a friend go out with me on a separate boat as the river was rather empty due to chilly weather.

at this point we decided to disconnect vro, and go to premix and be done with it.

got it back in the water today and ran 2 hours continuously at various speeds 45 mins at the cruise speed that had previously given me trouble. the rest at lower speeds to get home in the dark and never skipped a beat. and seems to be quieter over all.

at this point i wish i had gone to premix right away when i got the boat and maybe just maybe none of the bs would have ever happened.

the first hours on the rebuild it likely ran fine and had no problems due to having premixed fuel on top of the vro oiling for break in.

gonna try and dodge the weather and run it more tomorrow, maybe i can finally enjoy this thing for a little bit, and put it to sleep for winter in a few weeks knowing that all should be well come spring time

 

[dmoriarty51]

Re: 70hp johnson problems NEW CARNAGE PICS

bringing my own thread back from the dead......

middle cylinder is dead again, boat felt a bit lazy out of the gate this season.... compression check showed 120 40 120. shot a little fogging oil in the plug hole and got 60lbs. i then decided based on looks of plugs to do some seafoam treatment decarboning thinking stuck rings since oil improved the number after decarbon it showed 70-75 decided to go ahead and run it on the water. holeshot was better and it was snappy for a couple minutes.. did a couple loops in a section of river slowed to see how it idled after being throttled it ticked a couple times then barely stayed running and i plowed back to the dock.

checked compression again and got 120 0 120, using a small pencil flashlight and see the edge of the piston broken away again just like before, not as bad but its gotta come apart again..........waiting on the fella that rebuilt it to call me back but im not all that hopefull

 

[Silvertip]

Re: 70hp johnson problems NEW CARNAGE PICS

The vro cannot select one cylinder to say bye-bye to. Remove, thoroughly clean, and rebuild all carbs after the engine rebuild. Failure to do so will result in a repeat of this exercise. Any by all means get the alarm system working.

 

[dmoriarty51]

Re: 70hp johnson problems NEW CARNAGE PICS

yeah that was all done last year when it blew up the first time... vro has been gone since last august. it seems however that the rebuild missed a vital problem somewhere.

 

[deac1234]

Re: 70hp johnson problems NEW CARNAGE PICS

Just wondering how this saga is going...if it happened to me I think I would would have pulled my hair out..then set fire to the whole rig....

Sorry for your troubles..


Kerry

 

[dmoriarty51]

Re: 70hp johnson problems NEW CARNAGE PICS

other life issues are putting this on the sideline for the time being, i finally made contact with the fella that rebuilt it last summer for me, and he simply said thats wierd and offered no help of any kind, he is a marine mechanic at a local dealer and he does the work on the side i was referred to him by a friend. so i have no paperwork to lean on. that dealer also qouted the best price but he went several hundred lower yet so i went that way since either way he was doing the work.

currently i am leaning towards finding a different motor i can go a little larger boat is rated for 90hp although the 70 did great untill it decided to go sour, i dont think the extra 20 hp will do much for me besides burn gas. so maybe a reman powerhead this time around. obviously the carbs and so on will be gone through as well.

its gonna be a while either way, if i do opt to tear into it i will surely update with my findings.

 

[dmoriarty51]

Re: 70hp johnson problems NEW 2011 CARNAGE PICS

Re: 70hp johnson problems NEW 2011 CARNAGE PICS

Dad and I pulled the powerhead this weekend and cracked it open, we pulled the head and stopped. The failure is identical to what happened last year, piston doesnt look as bad likely since i was very close to the ramp when it went this time and so didnt have to keep it running long. This happened on premix fuel, VRO was removed last season, however not untill after it had acted up a couple times following the rebuild.

Looks like I gotta do some shopping around but its leaning hard towards a rebuilt powerhead with a warranty or possibly an entirely different outboard. Mad at myself right now, and if wondering if my tight budget on the rebuild last year is partly to cause, but the rebuilder claimed the bore was fine after acid removing the transferred aluminum.


Top of the piston, you can see the scoring of the cylinder wall. This is the cylinder that failed last year in the same fashion, although last time the cylinder wall wasnt this torn up, it simply had aluminum from the piston melted to it. Not sure whats really going on here, suspecting possibly that the bore and pistons are worn enough to allow some rocking and its catching the piston rings on the exhaust port and eventually breaking them.



And the cylinder head most likely ruined again, due to the pieces of steel piston ring being pounded into it. I read that if you are certain the steel is all removed then it could be reused, however the steel bits buried in the aluminum could create hotspots and cause pre ignition or detonation which would be very bad.

 

[dmoriarty51]

Re: 70hp johnson problems NEW 2011 CARNAGE PICS

Re: 70hp johnson problems NEW 2011 CARNAGE PICS

Well, Im all set to order a powerhead from www.oneoutboard.com as well as carb kits, and waterpump to make sure im covered. Hopefully this all goes well.

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: 70hp johnson problems NEW 2011 CARNAGE PICS

Re: 70hp johnson problems NEW 2011 CARNAGE PICS

You dont want to deal with these dudes as they where originally blackbird industries and have a large list of complaints.......
http://www.ripoffreport.com/boat-de...ries/blackbird-industries-a1-outboa-3c848.htm
http://www.wmi.org/bassfish/bassboard/boats_motors/message.html?message_id=224568
http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating...s-warranty-claim-my-yamaha-f225-4-stroke.html

 

[dmoriarty51]

Re: 70hp johnson problems NEW 2011 CARNAGE PICS

Re: 70hp johnson problems NEW 2011 CARNAGE PICS

NEW find that could certainly have contributed to my failures....The impeller that was supposedly replaced last year as cheap insurance during the rebuild. Seeing as its all dry cracked and the wear plate and cup has grooves in it, it seemed rather loose in the housing.

I'm thinking it was another shortcut taken by my mechanic. Oh another clue its date stamped Jan 1995.

Needless to say a complete waterpump kit is on order...

I know blackbird is a gamble, and i read some good and some bad. Mark42 seems to have had good luck with them for instance. Many of the bad stories stink of other issues and mud slinging contests. They cant screw everyone over and still be in business.