6hp johnson 6R -71E timing question

[billygee]

Had this Oldie passed on from family, been using it on a 12' pram
Couple yrs back had to replace the fuel pump worked out well
Close of my fishing season started to get a little misfire
So felt give it a complete Ignition rebuild New points, condensers, an coils
Removed the advance plate and replaced everything settling the points at 0.20" on the high lobe side
Started to install the flywheel noticing the two index lines reading set points T - B also found the index line on the advance plate
This is where I'm in question
With the throttle at stop the advance plate is fully retarted with points closed, yet the flywheel indexes line up, Now at full throttle points are open with flywheel index marks way off
Might Say the cam lobe and index marks on the flywheel are about 90 degrees from being in sink
So, are these index marks used with a timing light or am I missing something here ?

Bill

 

[racerone]

The two vertical lines on the magneto plate are timing marks.------Hook up your timing light.----The flash should always put the timing mark between those 2 lines.----If that is the case then timing is spot on.-----Hurry----visit ----leroysramblings-----To learn all about this simple magneto.-----Note----I started working on these motors BEFORE that 1971 model left the factory.----Have a bunch for parts / rebuilding too.----Doing 3 of them this winter.

 

[billygee]

The two vertical lines on the magneto plate are timing marks.------Hook up your timing light.----The flash should always put the timing mark between those 2 lines.----If that is the case then timing is spot on.-----Hurry----visit ----leroysramblings-----To learn all about this simple magneto.-----Note----I started working on these motors BEFORE that 1971 model left the factory.----Have a bunch for parts / rebuilding too.----Doing 3 of them this winter.

Ok

 

[billygee]

Hey racerone

Been a wrench puller back in the day
Not to many can relate to the past technology we had back then
(no pun intended)
As far as the information I posted
being that far off
Only explanation is a timing light
Well !
being old (not funny)
Seems if we don't have individual's like yourself to help resurrect some of our past memorabilia what's left as time passes us by
Thanks for your update

Bill

 

[Crosbyman]

 

[billygee]

Crossman
I did view this video and is where I'm in question
The video engine is an early 15hp Evinrude
Mine is a 6hp johnson 1971
Armature plates are similar as flywheels are different
There is no adjustment for idle other then the twist handle ranging from fast to stop on my engine is
Where the armature plate is in full retarded spark carb plate is closed
Fast throttle
Where the armature plate is at full advance with carb plate wide open
So where should the armature plate (advance plate) be in order to use this these index marks
Full throttle, or Stop throttle
Either way the cam in relation to point break are not in sink with timing marks when flywheel is installed
Bill

 

[racerone]

The timing Is for points to open relative to magnets spinning around the coils.-----Full throttle or idle makes no difference.-----This very same magneto is used on a single cylinder 1.5/ 2 HP and also 3 , 4 , 5.5 , 6 , 7.5 , 10 , 15 , 18 , 20 , 25 , 28 ,33 , 35 , 40 HP motors.---Used from 1950 to 1990 models.-----Timing of spark relative to piston travel is looked after by the linkages and rotation of magneto plate.----Do not overthink this simple , reliable , easy to service device!----The setting of the points is the same on all of them.----Magneto plates are essentially all the same.-----I learned how to diagnose and repair these in 1968.

 

[Crosbyman]

just follow the video don't worry about the rest... incl. throttle position .

 

[billygee]

racerone
So eliminating throttle and going by :
Timing of spark relative to piston travel is looked after by the linkages and rotation of magneto plate.-
for sake of understanding let say we are on #1cyl cam is on the high side points are set to 0.20"
Now we reinstall the flywheel
where should the index lines be in relation to the cams position, keeping in mind that a twist of the handle will move the plate in advance or retard position
( your probably right to be overthinkng this
as I'm ready to get out my degree crankshaft wheel to actually see where things really are starting with TDC )

Bill

 

[billygee]

Well Guys
Did the top cam lobe 0.20" w/#1 piston TDC installed the flywheel
Resulting in having to twist the handle to shift position in order for the index marks to match the specs
This most likely is the idling point for this mtr

 

[F_R]

You are missing the whole point (not pun) of the marks. Those marks are there for setting the points with the special tool timing fixture. The points are to be set to just barely start to open when the marks are aligned. Yeah, somebody figured out that the flywheel could be substituted for the tool.

Whatever, the marks have absolutely nothing to do with throttle position. Since you don't have the tool, make it easy on yourself and merely set the points to open 0.020" at their widest (high spot on the cam). That's all there is to it. Don't make it so danged complicated.

 

[racerone]

F R----Another vote indication the simplicity of this job.----Round of applause !

 

[billygee]

Hey Guys
Have to say the whole irony to this is
That was where I was leaving it in the first place until I noticed the flywheel had timing marks
As said this is almost a fixed set motor
No linkage adjustment just points, and one screw in the carb
Who new back then there would be a computer installed of what we have today
Thanks again guys
Bill

 

[racerone]

The points are " fixed " in position to generate the spark and need to be.-----They need to open based on the magnets rotating around the coils.-----The timing of spark to piston position is done by rotating the magneto plate.

 

[billygee]

racerone
( The timing of spark to piston position is done by rotating the magneto plate )
This is where, when I viewed the video on fine tuning was in question as to where the magneto plate should be in order to start fine tune
As for my engine no idle, or Stop adjustment just twist the grip an go
All is good now
Have spark and in control of where it should be
Thanks Again

Bill

 

[racerone]

Repeat.------It does not matter where the magneto plate is as per earlier posts.------The points have to open at the correct time to get SPARK.----Timing relative to the piston position is looked after automatically.

 

[Crosbyman]

gee billy glad you got going !

 

[billygee]

Guys
Didn't intend to put you through all this grief
Back in the day seemed setting up a fuel burning dragster was a simple task
I look at what they have for a set up now it's Just Unreal
Take Care Guys
Bill

 

[Crosbyman]

gee billy glad you got it going !

forgot one word !! don't be worried about asking for help.