57 seahorse wont start -?timing

[FHB]

Folks.
I am stuck. I have a 57 1o hp that I cant start. I had it running 2 weeks ago for 2-3 min but now it wont run. I have changed plugs, points , condensors, wires and have a hot looking spark. I held the plug and pulled the rope and it hurt like burgeevers.

I cleaned the very fould up carb twice and rebuilt it. The only problem I can see is I couldn't get one of the replacement o rings in that goes around the low speed needle valve but used some maroon spacers and washers that fit very tight.

If I pull the rope a few times it stinks like it it is flooded. The barrel it is siting in has alot of oil and dark stuff floating in the water.

I talked with a small engine guy who asked me if there is a way to adjust the timing. The only thing I can think of is how the screws in the magneto plate are ligned up with the screws that run through the points.

I wonder if it could be reed valves? I was told these almost never go bad. I have alot of time in this thing and currently it would make a better anchor than a motor.

Thanks for any help.

Frank

 

[bktheking]

Re: 57 seahorse wont start -?timing

When you had the flywheel off was the key in place in the crank for the flywheel, gotta start somewhere.

Did you set the points to .020 on the top of the cam and adjust the same on the other side?

 

[Daviet]

Re: 57 seahorse wont start -?timing

Compression good, spark good, flywheel key good and flywheel torqued to proper spec? It sounds like the carb may be your problem, did you remove the core plug on top of the carb and clean the passages in there? Your timing is basicly controlled by the proper setting of the points and the flywheel key being in good shape and the flywheel torqued to the proper spec. If you had a reed valve problem it would be spitting out of the carb every time it was pulled over.
I think you problem sounds like you still have a carb problem.

 

[F_R]

Re: 57 seahorse wont start -?timing

That spark "test" is invalid. Shocking don't count. It needs to jump at least a 3/16" open air gap. Were the coils good (not cracked)? Did you use a torque wrench to tighten the flywheel nut? If not, it may have sheared the key.

Reeds hardly ever go bad.

You have checked the compression, right?

 

[bktheking]

Re: 57 seahorse wont start -?timing

Did you also adjust the needles properly, that can play havoc when it comes to cold starting.

 

[FHB]

Re: 57 seahorse wont start -?timing

When you had the flywheel off was the key in place in the crank for the flywheel, gotta start somewhere.

Did you set the points to .020 on the top of the cam and adjust the same on the other side?

I did not check compression,but it is much harder to pull with plugs in than out. I have a pressure gauge somewhere and will do so in the am.

There is a key on the crank. I put the crank cam on it and adjusted the points. I am not aware of what the torque settings on the fly wheele are-I just snugged it up. Does it align in any particular way???

Thanks

Frank

 

[FHB]

Re: 57 seahorse wont start -?timing

I bought and installed brand new coils and condensors and gapped the points .o2.

 

[bktheking]

Re: 57 seahorse wont start -?timing

Everything lines up with the key, slot in the crank/cam and such. Torque is key, if the nut comes loose the flywheel will shear the key and the timing will be messed up.

 

[FHB]

Re: 57 seahorse wont start -?timing

Compression good, spark good, flywheel key good and flywheel torqued to proper spec? It sounds like the carb may be your problem, did you remove the core plug on top of the carb and clean the passages in there? Your timing is basicly controlled by the proper setting of the points and the flywheel key being in good shape and the flywheel torqued to the proper spec. If you had a reed valve problem it would be spitting out of the carb every time it was pulled over.
I think you problem sounds like you still have a carb problem.

I dismanteled the carb and soaked it in carb solvent and cleaned out the jets and changed the gaskets. Does the fly wheel align in any speial way with the magneto plate? I just snugged it down,not knowing there is a torque specification. Is that a big deal??

 

[bktheking]

Re: 57 seahorse wont start -?timing

If the key is in tact on the crankshaft the flywheel can only go on one way, the key goes where the notch is on the center of the flywheel. If there were no key the flywheel could be installed in any position on the crank and the magnets wouldn't line up properly for timing.

 

[FHB]

Re: 57 seahorse wont start -?timing

I ligned up the key in the fly wheel with the sheared off remanats of the key on the crank. She won't start. Shall I order a rebuilt carb???

 

[F_R]

Re: 57 seahorse wont start -?timing

Sure, order a carburetor. Somebody needs the business.

Dagnabbit, it has been said many times about the key and torque. And sure enough, now you say the key was sheared. Use an NEW key, not the sheared remnants. It is a special key, not a common hardware store woodruff key. And install the flywheel correctly. Correctly is as follows:

1. The shaft and flywheel tapers must not be worn or battered (from shearing keys)

2. The shaft and flywheel key slots must not be worn or battered (from shearing keys)

3. The shaft and flywheel tapers must be CLEAN and DRY

4. You MUST use a torque wrench to tighten the flywheel nut to 40-45 Foot Pounds.

5. Failure to do any of the above will result in shearing another key, which will further damage the parts (see #1 and 2)

 

[baldhunter]

Re: 57 seahorse wont start -?timing

I had the same kind of problem with my 3hp Evinrude.I rebuilt the carb and it ran perfect.Then I ran the carb dry and the next time I tried to start it,I had hell.Had a hard time getting it to start and when I did,it would only run with the choke on.This is what I found.At the bottom of the fuel bowl near the center is a high speed orifice.Mine has a brass orifice plug that requires a special tool to remove,so in rebuilding,I could never clean it well.I dug around in my tackle box and found some .025 dia. stainless steel solid wire leader and was able to work it through the tiny orifice.After working it back and forth several times,I could feel it cleaning the crud out that was built up inside of it.Put the plug back in the fuel bowl,turned on the gas,pulled the choke,pulled the rope and she fired right up!!!!!!!!! It now starts with only having to pull the rope a little over half way out and on the first pull everytime just like a new one.So it was that one tiny little orifice was giving me all that hell.Like they say,if it's getting fuel and spark it should run,if one is lacking it won't.

 

[FHB]

Re: 57 seahorse wont start -?timing

I think on the 57 that orifice is on the external side of the bottom of the bowl. It has a small screw which I removed and blew carb cleaner. When I was 16 I overly aggressively reamed out some jets on a VW carb and wreaked it, so I have been reluctant to do so since. Maybe I need to gently do so.

Is the key hard to get out? I will call up Laing and order one.He has been very friendly and helpful.

I sure hope I can get this running.

Thanks

Frank

 

[FHB]

Re: 57 seahorse wont start -?timing

I will write back after I follow the above suggestions.

Good boating

Frank

 

[bktheking]

Re: 57 seahorse wont start -?timing

Is the key hard to get out? I will call up Laing and order one.He has been very friendly and helpful.

Frank

It can be and may take come time to get it out, depends if it rusted inside the crank where the key sits. The key is a half moon shape, the curve sits in the crank. I think of it like a rocking chair leg, if you take a thin punch and place it at the top or bottom of the sheared key you can tap it out with the punch and the hammer, it will rock out in the opposite direction.

 

[FHB]

Re: 57 seahorse wont start -?timing

I pulled out the key. It was infact not sheared. I cleaned it up a bit with a file as it had a couple burrs on it. I took the coils off to ensure the spark plug wires were well seated and replaced everything and torqued the flywheel. I ble carb cleaner in the intake and pulled the rope and nothing happened.

I have the carb in solvent and we will see what happens in the am.

Frank

 

[FHB]

Re: 57 seahorse wont start -?timing

Compression is 80 on both cylinders- sems a little low.

 

[jbjennings]

Re: 57 seahorse wont start -?timing

FHB,
I'll bet a dollar you don't have good spark.
Welcome to iboats, BTW.
80psi isn't bad. IT will run with 80psi. Bad spark is the hardest thing to get right on these oldies. There's a thread in the "top secret files" at the top of this forum that will show you how to do it---with pictures. Regardless of the condition of the carb, if you have good spark at the right time (flywheel on the key) and spray fuel/oil mix (not carb cleaner) into the carb throat, and advance the throttle, it will crank and run for a few seconds, anyway.
On the freak occurance that a reed plate is blocked, it won't. You can check that by putting a squirt of fuel/oil in the spark plug holes, reinstalling the plugs and pulling it over 2 or 3 times If it doesn't try to run then, you don't have good spark.
Once again, the safe bet is a spark problem. Just because it will make a spark when grounding the plug to the block, doesn't mean it's good enough to spark under compression with hydrocarbons in there.
Good luck,
JBJ
BTW--love those QD's!!! You've got a nice motor which I'll bet you really like once you get it tuned properly.