5.0 GXi oil extraction

[Jeff J]

I checked the oil level before attempting extracting the oil. The dipstick showed full but I am sucking air. I have only managed to remove about 2.5 quarts after an hour last night while the oil was warm and 2 hours this morning with the oil about 50 degrees. I am using a hand pump vacuum extraction device. I pump it ten or so pumps and after a several seconds it starts pulling air out of the oil sump. Does it both when connected with a hose adapter to the dipstick tube and with a tube down the dipstick tube. I had to raise the bow as high as the trailer jack will go just to accomplish what I have. I was sucking only air with the boat level. I have never seen this problem before. I did another 5.0 last week and a 6 cylinder along with 2 Mercruisers the week before that without and issues and the boats sitting level. What could be causing this? If I hadn’t checked the level before I started I would have assumed it had been run out of oil.

 

[Scott Danforth]

is the dipstick correct for the motor?

is the dipstick fully seated in the block?

 

[Jeff J]

Should be correct. I didn’t measure either but it looks exactly like the one in the boat I returned to the lake yesterday. Boat is a 2015 model with 1029 hours so who knows? But I fail to see how it could affect my ability to remove oil from a boat sitting level on the trailer.

How could not seating the dipstick fully give a reading on the dipstick other than LOWER than the amount expected or have any bearing on needing the bow to be high to draw any oil out?

I have removed 4.5 quarts so far. This is hour 4 of pumping waiting and pumping some more. The extraction pump draws oil for about 20 seconds then pulls air. Let it sit a few minutes and repeat. Cold oil could be having an impact today. I didn’t think to raise the bow last night while the oil was warm but it should still draw oil through the dipstick tube when the boat is level even when the quantity is low.

 

[Scott Danforth]

If the dipstick tube is not driven in far enough, it will sit too high with respect to the pan bottom

 

[alldodge]

Boat is a 2015 model with 1029 hours
The extraction pump draws oil for about 20 seconds then pulls air. Let it sit a few minutes and repeat.

Dang that's 128 hours a year, wonder if it's commercial

I'm thinking might be some slug in the pan, and pan might have a baffle. Wonder how often the oil has been changed

Not sure but if it was my boat might think about dropping the pan

 

[Jeff J]

I can’t speak as to oil change frequency before 3 years ago but every 100 hours or once a year since I got involved with the maintenance. The ski boats see just under 100 hours a year since they started bringing in more pontoon boats. The 2 outboard ski boats are more popular than the I/O boats too.

Pulling the outdrive and lifting the motor to pull an oil sump isn’t that complicated but I am not equipped to do it. I was thinking about removing the drain plug if there is one and it can be reached. I ended up with ~4.75 quarts before I could not get anymore with the pump. It took about 6 hours total to get it out. I am used to quite a bit better than that and was scratching my head as to what was going on.

I don’t remember any issues like this last year.

 

[alldodge]

There is a drain plug but it's really hard to get to, and in most cases it has loctite on it. If you can get it off a drain hose can be installed

 

[bruceb58]

On a Volvo, the dipstick tube should go to the bottom of the pan where it connects to a fitting that replaces the drain plug. That is why using the garden hose fitting should work fine. Might want to see if that is still the case with your engine in case someone has changed it.

Don't waste your time putting a tube down the dipstick...only use the garden hose fitting.

If the tube is hooked up correctly and you still suck air, the engine has no oil in it.

 

[Jeff J]

Thanks for the tip. I will have to crawl in there with a flashlight and mirror or videoscope and have a look.

 

[bruceb58]

Thanks for the tip. I will have to crawl in there with a flashlight and mirror or videoscope and have a look.

Or just lower your cell phone down there and take pictures or video...just attach your phone to a stick in video mode

 

[Jeff J]

Or just lower your cell phone down there and take pictures or video...just attach your phone to a stick in video mode

Mirror and flashlight sounds easier to me. Especially since I don’t have a “stick” to hold my phone and the mirror has a telescopic handle so I don’t have to hang head low and stretch my arm down there hoping I get a picture of what I need.

 

[Lou C]

I have the same set up on my old OMC 4.3 in fact I think that Volvo adopted OMC’s design during the joint venture between OMC & Volvo. I have never had trouble sucking out all the oil in the pan with the Topsider vacuum pump & the garden hose fitting. I wonder though if an engine wasn’t maintained with a yearly oil change could there be sludge blocking the passage to the dipstick where it connects to the pan?
When I changed the mechanical fuel pump I did find some oil sludge in the tube that’s supposed to not have anything in it unless the diaphragm for the fuel pump leaked there would be fuel in that yellow hose.
Even though the oil was changed on this engine every season since I’ve owned it (21 years) it was 14 years old when I bought it; so who knows what previous owners did….

 

[Lou C]

The other thing you could do VERY CAREFULLY is to use a heat gun to heat the oil pan to about 100-125*F that may make it easier. 50* I don’t t think you can suck out oil.
I have done this twice; once was when my engine had leaky head gaskets & had to change the oil 3-4 times to get the water out; the other time was when I had to do a trans oil change on one of my Jeeps in the winter. On the Jeep I used the Topsider to suck the oil out of the pan so the job wasn’t such a mess. Heated the pan to about 130-145* and it came right out. Just use an IR temp gun so you don’t set something on fire lol!

 

[bruceb58]

Mirror and flashlight sounds easier to me. Especially since I don’t have a “stick” to hold my phone and the mirror has a telescopic handle so I don’t have to hang head low and stretch my arm down there hoping I get a picture of what I need.

Duct tape and a thin piece of molding works fine.

I had a septic tank inspected and that's how he did it except he used a piece of copper pipe. He said the phone was way better than his $2K inspection camera.

 

[Jeff J]

Duct tape and a thin piece of molding works fine.

I had a septic tank inspected and that's how he did it except he used a piece of copper pipe. He said the phone was way better than his $2K inspection camera.

I think the $2K inspection camera is only 640 pixels. Mine is anyway. I bought it to inspect aircraft cylinders years ago but I use it for nearly everything I when I have a need to see something in a tight space.

The specific problem with getting the oil out was it kept sucking air whether the oil was hot or cold. When I switched from the garden hose connector to pushing a tube down the dipstick hole nothing changed and the end of the tube came out with only dirty oil on it. I eventually did get more than 5 quarts out of it but I had the pump the extractor several times over the course of the day (normal is twice). I would pump it up, it would start to draw oil, I would turn to do something else and I could hear it start sucking air. I timed it a couple of times. It would pull oil for about 15 seconds then draw air if I let it sit a few minutes between attempts.

I thought maybe the dipstick tube had hole in it or I just had a bad seal on the connection when it did it with the garden hose. I wouldn’t think sucking air would be possible if it was clogged with sludge. I guess maybe there could be a build up around the dipstick like a bowl. Suck the bowl out and have to wait for the oil to seep in and fill the bowl to get more.

 

[bruceb58]

I think the $2K inspection camera is only 640 pixels. Mine is anyway. I bought it to inspect aircraft cylinders years ago but I use it for nearly everything I when I have a need to see something in a tight space.

The specific problem with getting the oil out was it kept sucking air whether the oil was hot or cold. When I switched from the garden hose connector to pushing a tube down the dipstick hole nothing changed and the end of the tube came out with only dirty oil on it. I eventually did get more than 5 quarts out of it but I had the pump the extractor several times over the course of the day (normal is twice). I would pump it up, it would start to draw oil, I would turn to do something else and I could hear it start sucking air. I timed it a couple of times. It would pull oil for about 15 seconds then draw air if I let it sit a few minutes between attempts.

I thought maybe the dipstick tube had hole in it or I just had a bad seal on the connection when it did it with the garden hose. I wouldn’t think sucking air would be possible if it was clogged with sludge. I guess maybe there could be a build up around the dipstick like a bowl. Suck the bowl out and have to wait for the oil to seep in and fill the bowl to get more.

Sounds like your engine pan is empty. If you really don't believe that, unscrew the dipstick tube from the fitting at the bottom of the pan and then unscrew the fitting.

This isn't rocket science!

There hasn't been a camera made in the last 30 years that has only 640 pixels. My very first digital camera in 1999 had 1 meg pixels...1,600 times more than 630 pixels.

This is what the fitting looks like. This is from an 8.1L but yours will be similar.

 

[Jeff J]

I filled the boat with oil and returned the boat to the dock on November 2nd so the guy who winterizes the 6 I/O boats in the fleet could do whatever it is he does to get antifreeze throughout the motor while in the slip.

The pictures helps. Now I have an idea what to look for. I didn’t expect a fitting on the drain. It explains why one side of the dipstick is sometimes dry when I check the levels. Pulling a dipstick reading from a horizontal tube is a terrible design. I wonder why they don’t use the original vortec dipstick arrangement.

The more I learn, the more I think there is a sludge build up in the oil sump. I was sucking the fitting empty then waiting for it to fill back up. I don’t know what to do about it except pull the engine and clean it out but, as I stated before, I don’t have the equipment for that. I am guessing the owners will have to pay a Volvo Penta shop couple thousand for that.

 

[Lou C]

Honestly that was the only thing I could think of, I have never had that problem with my engine which uses a similar system but like I said earlier when I replaced an old (30 year old) mechanical fuel pump, there was some sludge build up inside the pump, the part that was inside the engine. These old school pumps were driven off a lobe of the camshaft by a pushrod. I thought this could have been maybe the previous owner not changing the oil enough, but when I pulled the valve covers off to change the cyl heads (overheat damage) about 6 years ago, there was no sludge anywhere on the cyl heads, or cam valley. Just some milky oil from the leaky head gaskets. By the time I had to fix this though I had owned it about 15 years.
Looking at the hardware used on the dipstick attachment to the oil pan, the passages are pretty small it wouldn't take that much to clog it, at least partially.