4 stroke vs. 2 stroke??????

[jcoo240811]

Help please,<br />I am looking at a 16 ft sylvan super red snaper and plan on useing it for a variety of fishing should i go with 2 or 4 stroke.<br /><br /> Thanks,<br /> joe

 

[Solittle]

Re: 4 stroke vs. 2 stroke??????

Been asked & answered many times. Go to the red search at the top of the page and enter "2 cycle vs 4 cycle".

 

[miloman]

Re: 4 stroke vs. 2 stroke??????

jcoo 2 stroke will give you better whole shot and mid end performance. $ stroke will give you wisper quiet performance. 4 stroke will cost you more up front. A new 2 stroke is as effieicent as a 4 stroke in terms of emissions. I have run both and I cant wait until I can return to 2 stroke

 

[MajBach]

Re: 4 stroke vs. 2 stroke??????

jcoo:<br />Just to add more than one opinion to the pot, I disagree with almost everything milo stated. I too own a 17' Sylvan with a 90 hp 4-stroke and would NEVER go back to a 2-stroke. My observations of others' opinion are the same. I disagree that a 4-stroke costs more up-front from an DFI (and why would anyone buy a conventional two stroke anymore unless really strapped for cash?). I also believe that the 'weight' issue of a 4-stroke over a DFI 2-stroke has been blown way out of proportion. Many 4's weight less than 2 strokes, especially in the 50 hp range. The jury is still out on low end and mid range performance between the two. I have spoken with many that state that the 4 strokes have even better hole shot. It seems that it is such a reoccurring statement that 2 strokes have better low end that it is taken as fact.<br />4's are definately quiet though.

 

[Solittle]

Re: 4 stroke vs. 2 stroke??????

Not to bash technology but I wonder if those who read this board 20 years from now will find many questions about either todays 2 or 4 cycle motors that are dependant on boxes of sensors and computers to keep running. I bet JB, snapperbait, dejohns and a few others will still be answering questions about 1970s carbed 2 cycle motors.

 

[miloman]

Re: 4 stroke vs. 2 stroke??????

well Maj Bach a brief background I test well over 100 engine and boat configurations a year ranging from low hp all the way to 250 modified di and 4 stroke engines 4 strokes on average are 10% to 15% more in cost but the running of a 4 stroke is cheaper unless it runs over 100 hrs per year at which point the come close to equalizing Im not aware of any mid range hp 4 strokes that weigh less then a 2 stroke the weight differance isnt great in some cases but it can be as much as 80lb, which on the back of a 16 foot boat is a big difference. In fact many pre 96 boat transoms are being pushed to their limits with this additional weights and some boat manufactures are saying that when installing a 4 stroke that the hp restriction doesnt apply and a lower hp engine is to be installed. I have heard that in the very near future both a weight ahd hp restriction will be in the coast guard plate I recently did a test on compariable hp 4 stroke vs 2 stroke and all 2 strokes beat the 4 strokes both on hole shot and mid range. In the case of a honda vs a johnston 2 stroke the difference was 3 seconds on plane. IN respect to emission control most 2 strokes now are as efficient as a 4 stroke as a result of carb and as I was once told where do you think the 2-4 litres of oil go any way after being used by a 4 stroke the land fill The fact that they are quieter is a given. That will change in a month or so when the evinrude e tec comes out. it will be the quietest engine ever produced and it is 2 stroke. I dont wanna rattle feathers. Just my humble opinion Sorry

 

[miloman]

Re: 4 stroke vs. 2 stroke??????

but as you can see by my tag I do run 2 4 strokes and a di so I guess I am my own critic lol

 

[naketa]

Re: 4 stroke vs. 2 stroke??????

its up to you on how much money that you want to pay i personly like 2 stroke justby the way they proform the bad thing is if you let its sit for a long time the gas evaperate and the oil gums up the carb

 

[sloopy]

Re: 4 stroke vs. 2 stroke??????

I must say I am 100% 100% not 50 50 but I love both so much!!!!! two strokes are fun to work with and simple to fix. Four-strokes have great fuel economy.

 

[BillP]

Re: 4 stroke vs. 2 stroke??????

I currently own and operate 2 and 4 stroke outboards and prefer 2 strokes. Hole shots...who cares? Financials don't make a hoot on whether it's a 2s or 4s for me either. Nor does fuel burn. Ease of running, simplicity (as in less moving parts) and internal corrosion resistance is why I like 2 strokes. I've owned a 50x4 stroke since 1996 and many 2 strokes for over 50 years. <br /><br />One more thought...don't even think of letting your 4 stroke sit in storage for a few years like you can with a 2 stroke. Bets are you will have major valve train problems if in a humid climate. Been there with the 2 strokes with NO issues but my 4 stroke developed rust on the valve springs (EASILY seen through the oil fill cap)in only 3 months of sitting outside in my boat lift without running or fogging. Meanwhile, my trusty carbed 2 strokes (4 total) sat happily without harm.

 

[catfish1]

Re: 4 stroke vs. 2 stroke??????

miloman is correct! the new 2 stroke efi motors will out perform the four stroke in almost all catagories. i read about it here at the iboats used motors about 8 months ago, they had a article about 2 strokes "vs" 4 strokes, and they did the tests. i'm pretty sure they said the two strokes even trolled better at lower speeds. if i remember correctly the only advantage that the four stroke had was a slightly better mpg and sound level. i wish the article was still there but its not.

 

[MajBach]

Re: 4 stroke vs. 2 stroke??????

Milo, no need to apologize. Better knowledge is the product of a good debate. I too have to remind myself that we sometimes choose which opinion we want to be taken as fact. By simple common sense, a 2 stroke should outperform a 4 stroke when size and weight are comparable. I mean, there are twice as many power strokes at any given rpm and far less moving parts to offer resistance. But there are so many other factors to consider such as combustion efficiency, compression ratio, vavle float, max rpm etc. Technology is becoming to comlpex and advanced, one has to be an engineer to really make sense of it all and even then, the rules are no longer so general.<br />I think what people often overlook is that when a motor is rated, ie. given the label 50 hp or 300 hp, that's what it is we're comparing, not the fact that it is a 2 stroke vs. a 4. Maybe a 2 stroke develops the same amount of power as a four with half the engine size. But in the end, if it's a 50 hp, it's a 50 hp. How it achieves that power though may be characteristic of it's design.<br />I still cannot fathom the arguement that a 2 stroke is as pollution friendly as a four; it is inherently impossible. At the end of the day, a 2 stroke has oil that cannot be accounted for and by its design, it simply cannot burn fuel as efficiently. One cannot include oil that goes into a landfill site as a product of emission tests. (But even if one does, it is still less oil than a 2 stroke uses and it doesn't factor in the recyclabilty of this oil into plastics or tires etc.)But really, how important is emissions to any of us compared to other things?<br />My basis for some of my points was that when we were shopping around for an outboard, we narrowed it down to the Honda 90 or the ficht 90. The Ficht was almost $1000 more brand new and weighed a mere 30 pounds less. <br />I also remember around the same time noticing that the Honda 50 hp was THE LIGHTEST outboard of 50 hp on the market at that time, even over the 2 strokes. And finally, Honda now sells a 20 hp that weights in at 100 lbs. <br />Now, I know that all sounds pro-Honda, it's merely the fact that I own one that makes me take notice of some of the stats of the new ones when they comes out; I'm not a fanatic about them. truth is, I really wanted to get that Ficht as I owned an OMC for over 20 years and this motor simply was the best and most reliably combsution engine I have have owned. many factors made choose the HOnda.<br />It's probably a debate that will never end. As far as I am concerned, there are just as many unique characteristics between one manufacturere to another and even from one specific engine to another within the same mfgr. as there is between 2 strokes and four strokes. It is virtually impossible to make generalizations and even specific comparissons any more from one outboard to the next. the only way I will EVER know what a 90 2 stroke, i.e. 90 ficht, would compare to my Honda 90 is if I actually ran one on my boat. How many people do we come across that do in fact do run different motors off the same transom that can make such a objective comparison? Perhaps you are one of them.<br /><br />Toronto?<br />Work at a dealer? Where? Fish much?<br />How come I don't hear you saying 'eh?'

 

[catfish1]

Re: 4 stroke vs. 2 stroke??????

the comparison tests (not done by iboats) iboats had here were in fact done on the same boats. doesnt really matter to me, but the topic here is a comparison of the two strokes to the four strokes. yes, todays two stokes come very very close to the four strokes in the emmissions catagory. in fact, they said that in the near future the two strokes will be more environmentally friendly than the four strokes, the article went into great detail of how the lower emissions were being accomplished, i wish it was still there! i wouldnt have believed it myself if i didnt see the results.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: 4 stroke vs. 2 stroke??????

Catfish, <br /><br />Since the 2002 model year, the 2 stroke DFI Evinrude 225 emits fewer emissions than the 4-stroke Yamaha 225. If you don't believe me, look at the EPA tags on each of the motors.

 

[Bradster941]

Re: 4 stroke vs. 2 stroke??????

BillP had an Interesting observation about a sitting 4 stroke and internal rust / pitting.<br />While this topic of 4 vs. 2 has been repeated here over and over again, I for one never get tired of hearing new opinions.

 

[catfish1]

Re: 4 stroke vs. 2 stroke??????

seahorse, i didnt say that four strokes were any better in emmissions, i said: todays two stokes come very very close to the four strokes in the emmissions catagory. the tests were not done on every brand and every hp motor made! the brands involved were mercurys & johnson but i cant remember how many & what hp's were involved.

 

[miloman]

Re: 4 stroke vs. 2 stroke??????

ok so I think that this conversation is going to be redundent. I just got off a new etec and I think it will totally change the playing field. I am testing the new yamaha 300 next week so I will tell you my thoughts I was so impressed with the etec that I can say that it will be the biggest advancement in marine propulsion since through hub exhaust. To sumise it It was quieter then any 4 stroke I have ever heard and the hole shot was out of this world totally blown away even though it is premix when I saw the #s on usage that too blew me away

 

[catfish1]

Re: 4 stroke vs. 2 stroke??????

hey miloman, post some results if you can, i'd love to hear about it.

 

[P.V.]

Re: 4 stroke vs. 2 stroke??????

Man O' man..... Should I even bother. BUT, I like a good fight! I ran Etec in May (Florida). It was loud, idled rough, (gave me a headache) and EVERYONE else that ran it thought it was just the next generation of FICHT but in a smaller package. Of the 30/40 people who were there, no-one was really impressed. And told the factory boys so! We all had an opprotunity to sit around and talk about the motors, two strokes and four !!If they ment it to kick the four stroke boys in the butt then they have to address the very first impression (at least) that people discovered when they started the motor up, it was no-way, in any shape or form, gunna convince a owner of a four stroke outboard that he "should" of bought a two stroke!!!And yes, I bet the designers have improved them, they had to or no-one would bother to buy one once they got an earfull !!! If you want to read/believe that "facts", that one is better than another, fine!. But I have never, and my boat/motor dealer friends (of which I have a few)concurr, never had a customer want to go BACK to a two stroke !!! That's not saying the two's don't have a place in this world, if the guy want cost savings, lighter weight (slightly),"two stroke performance", but the only guy I have really ever had upset with his four stroke was the guy who thought he had a EFI model when he had a carb'd one! Yes, I've had a few "make oil", no big deal! Compare that to the DFI motors that have "ate" powerheads!!!!!!! Who's a happier camper?? Shoot, it ain't even close, Customers love 'em and dealers love 'em! And now, Suzuki has a 250hp. Yamaha and Honda a 150, Suzuki's 140 ?? Fabulous!! Good bye, Opti, HPDI and RAM !!! Like the tortise and the hare, I'll get the job done, it'll just take 1.9 seconds longer to do it! No sweat!!

 

[seahorse5]

Re: 4 stroke vs. 2 stroke??????

The prototype ETECHs at the Miami Boat show were quiet and smooth. The factory tells me the production models are even better than the earlier versions.<br /><br />I know of 3 customers who changed back from a 4 stroke to a 2 stroke. Two were 15hp motors and the weight was the big factor. Another was an 80 which was swapped out for a Johnson 90. The customer did not like the long warm up and lack luster performance. Most of the other 4-stroke customers like them until it comes to maintenance time. Some Yamaha oil filters are priced way too high.