4.3 not running like it should...where to start?

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CurrentObsession

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Update

​Last week after my report of it running poorly at sea trial, after getting back home we noticed in the driveway that somehow a vacuum hose (the one in the pics at the rearmost end of the throttle body) was not connected. Reconnected, started it up in the driveway, it ran great and I figured I was good to go. Took it out fishing yesterday and again couldn't get on plane even worse than before.

​I guess on AllDodges advise I will look into how to set timing, I have a timing light but never used it, hopefully its not too hard.

​I am wondering, does this motor have a computer with fault codes like a car?
 

alldodge

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Update
​Last week after my report of it running poorly at sea trial, after getting back home we noticed in the driveway that somehow a vacuum hose (the one in the pics at the rearmost end of the throttle body) was not connected. Reconnected, started it up in the driveway, it ran great and I figured I was good to go. Took it out fishing yesterday and again couldn't get on plane even worse than before.

The vacuum hose goes to the PCV valve on the valve cover. With the hose disconnected it gives the motor a large vacuum leak.

I guess on AllDodges advise I will look into how to set timing, I have a timing light but never used it, hopefully its not too hard.


The timing light you have needs to have an inductive pickup. The pickup will have a clip of sorts which goes over the number 1 spark plug wire. Connect the other two leads to the battery. In most cases its helpful to mark the balancer with a white grease pencil so it shows up easier, not necessary, just makes it easier.

Ground the purple/white wire and set at 8 BTDC.

​I am wondering, does this motor have a computer with fault codes like a car?

The ECM does record faults but you cannot use a car scanner, it requires one for the motor. The codes can be determined using a resistor type LED and a paper clip or jumper wire. The LED is installed (get one radio shack or such) and install. Install the paper clip then turn motor ignition ON, but do not start. Now count the flashes, should be something like

flash, pause, flash, flash, flash, flash = 14.

If there is more than one code there will be more flash combinations.

DLC with LED code reader.jpg

The one thing which is bothering me is the fittings attached to the TBI and the sensor. The TBI should have the TPS and an IAC, but I'm trying to figure out what the other is. Wires are Green and a Black.

Are there any other color wires attached to it?
I'm thinking it is the MAP sensor, and if it is, then it's not in the right spot and may not be the right one
TBI V6.jpg
 

NHGuy

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I thing he meant to type PCV on the loose rubber line. It goes to the fitting on the valve cover for positive crankcase ventilation.
 

CurrentObsession

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Here are some additional pics....

​Curser over the pics adds info.
 

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alldodge

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​I cant find the purple/white wire.....I recall one on my 5.7, but cant find it on this engine.

Your correct there is no purple/white wire, you have a MEFI-3 ECM. Find the DLC connector in post 22 and place jumper between pins A and B, then start the engine. The engine should idle at 1200 rpms and be in base timing mode. Set timing, shut motor OFF and remove jumper.
 
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alldodge

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I'm a bit puzzeled by this one. The wires are ones which are the colors for the MAP sensor, but I am unable to find the sensor in the parts breakdown.

fetch


Also if it is a MAP sensor it should be mounted on the intake manifold. It should also look like this
8544451_2.jpg


So I hope maybe Fun Times can assist and provide some insight.

Is there a hole in the intake close by that maybe has something stuck in it?
 

CurrentObsession

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Your correct there is no purple/white wire, you have a MEFI-3 ECM. Find the DLC connector in post 22 and place jumper between pins A and B, then start the engine. The engine should idle at 1200 rpms and be in base timing mode. Set timing, shut motor OFF and remove jumper.

​Tried to set timing, unfortunately I warmed up the engine first, now it wont start.
​So here are some pics of the TBI from all sides.....
 

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Fun Times

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The sensor mounted to the throttle body is a sort lived Fuel Pressure Sensor for the V6, V8 305/350 cid Engines with MEFI-3.
The Green wire goes to the ECM named Fuel Pressure Sensor Signal. ECM J2-12, Wire Circuit 475.
The gray wire is the 5 Volt Reference. ECM J2-4, Circuit 416.
Black is Sensor Ground. ECM J2-3, Circuit 813.
See item number 3 then follow the line down to Note A, http://www.iboats.com/Throttle-Body/dm/cart_id.812495366--session_id.183582778--view_id.1682675


All MCM V6 Sterndrive Engines: S/N 0L360000 and above.
Two New Sensors
Intake Air Temperature (IAT): Mounted near the flame arrestor on EFI models and in the intake manifold on MPI models. The IAT sensor signal is used by the ECM to adjust fuel and spark timing based on incoming air density.
Fuel Pressure Sensor: It is in the Throttle Body Unit on EFI models and on the port fuel rail toward the rear of the engine on MPI models. The purpose of this sensor is to help the ECM control fuel system delivery by monitoring pressure.

Here's your complete parts catalog through iboats for you if interested. http://www.iboats.com/4-3L-EFI-GEN-TBI-GM-262-V-6-0L619000-THRU-0M322780/dm/view_id.1682655
 

CurrentObsession

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It wont start now. I accidently jumped E and F from post 22, when I set up for timing (bad memory) and it arced across the exhaust manifold with the paperclip prior to trying to start it after warm up. Could this be why it wont start now? should I check a particular fuse?
 

alldodge

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It wont start now. I accidently jumped E and F from post 22, when I set up for timing (bad memory) and it arced across the exhaust manifold with the paperclip prior to trying to start it after warm up. Could this be why it wont start now? should I check a particular fuse?

Oh man it might be, but lets hope its just a fuse. In the area of the DLC connector there should be something the is skinny and sort of flat. This would be a cover with three fuses under it. See if one of them blew

Thanks FT for the info, sure would be nice if the part actually was listed. Also could not find it on my wiring diagram
 

Fun Times

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The Fuse holder is on the port side just behind/rear of the 2 relays next to the ECM as I can see it in your photo below.
It should just be one of the ECM fuses are now bad and hopefully not the ECM as the chances should be lower due to the protection of the fuses.
By chance did you or the pervious boat owner ever own a 1990 boat with a V6 engine in it? That cover with the 0C serial number is from 1990.;)
Glad I could help with the fuel PSI sensor AD.:) < Pretty sure the sensors listed somewhere as a part number if ever needed but surprised to see it not listed in "his" parts guide.:noidea: < Edit/Correction, I was able to find the sensor as it's listed as item number 16, 881879A8 ,http://www.mercruiserparts.com/bam/subassembly/31497/5388/90

Make a Marine EFI code tool for less than $1.00


 
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CurrentObsession

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By chance did you or the pervious boat owner ever own a 1990 boat with a V6 engine in it? That cover with the 0C serial number is from 1990.;)

​No, near as I can guess this boat and another were being serviced somewhere and the covers accidentally got swapped. Crazy, I know. I made the mistake of assuming the info on the cover was correct and installed the wrong plugs.....everything has been downhill since.

​Also, for what its worth while I was prepping for setting the timing, I couldn't even budge moving the distributor and it took a lot of effort to loosen the bolt holding it down. Keeping in mind that it ran fine prior to me changing the plugs, how likely is it to be out of proper timing al of a sudden?
 
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CurrentObsession

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It just dawned on me. While I was cranking the engine and it wouldn't start, I took it out of gear and goosed the throttle and I noticed that the injectors stopped squirting fuel down after getting more than 1/4 of the way up throttle, at the time it happened I figured it must be a computer controlled safety thing, but now I am wondering if I may have a fuel pressure issue.
 

Fun Times

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installed the wrong plugs and everything has been downhill since.
While it shouldn't have had to much of an ill effect, things may have changed internally inside the engine being it had a loose spark plug and it compromising the spark plug end 'Plus running with to short of plugs may have helped carboned up the engine cylinders & heads giving the engine a rich running appearance.
You may eventually want to try performing a cylinder compression test and possibly a leak down test just to see the overall condition of the engine should nothing else become evident. If the plugs were fuel carboned black, there are some techniques mentioned both here at iboats and online about cleaning the cylinders by way of ever so carefully using water and running the engine.

Also, for what its worth while I was prepping for setting the timing, I couldn't even budge moving the distributor and it took a lot of effort to loosen the bolt holding it down. Keeping in mind that it ran fine prior to me changing the plugs, how likely is it to be out of proper timing al of a sudden?
The chances of a dramatic change of ignition timing are low if/had you know for sure the distributor has not been moved by you or anyone else specially in a time frame...None the less, checking base timing is always part of the diagnostics game which also includes checking to ensure the timing is still advancing and reaching the near max degrees at higher RPM. In your case you should be advancing up to right around 23 - 30 +/- a few degrees (< just depends on load) at around 3000 RPM.
Now that the bolt has been backed off, it could have changed the timing a bit plus the work of trying to move it may have possibly changed it too... Yes it's still worth checking timing but you shouldn't have to move or loosen it up first just to check if it's in range.;) Move it if it's out of range.:)

It just dawned on me. While I was cranking the engine and it wouldn't start, I took it out of gear and goosed the throttle and I noticed that the injectors stopped squirting fuel down after getting more than 1/4 of the way up throttle, at the time it happened I figured it must be a computer controlled safety thing, but now I am wondering if I may have a fuel pressure issue.
This system has what is know as a clear flood mode which it will stop fuel flow out of the fuel injectors once the throttle is advanced to a programmed percentage setting within the ECM. Engine models very for what throttle percentages activates the clear flood mode. Some are at 50%, some are 75 and 100%. I don't recall what yours would be as there is no official written word for each engine model.

The important thing is that you see fuel coming out of the injectors while in neutral/idle position. In some cases to help with checking the IAC for non proper operation, it may be helpful to open the throttle plate about/almost 20% to see if giving the engine more air will help start the engine easier., < That mentioned, if you happen to go to far, you lose fuel injector pulses by entering clear flood mode...But once you find your % range, you can sometimes go past the range to get your fuel injector pulses back unless yours is set at 100%...Then back the "Throttle Only" down.

Yes checking fuel pressure is going to be part of the diagnostics too. You need a special fitting from Mercruiser to go inline of the inlet fuel hose right at the back of the throttle body.
 

CurrentObsession

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While it shouldn't have had to much of an ill effect, things may have changed internally inside the engine being it had a loose spark plug and it compromising the spark plug end 'Plus running with to short of plugs may have helped carboned up the engine cylinders & heads giving the engine a rich running appearance.
You may eventually want to try performing a cylinder compression test and possibly a leak down test just to see the overall condition of the engine should nothing else become evident.

​I've been wondering if the missing electrode from that loose plug might have caused damage to the valve system of that cylinder while trying to exit the motor. I think the next thing I will do is a compression test on that cylinder. The last time I did a test was with a carbureted engine, I gave it lots of gas to wet the cylinders, how do I do that with an EFI engine?
 

alldodge

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You don't want fuel going in the motor. Move throttle handle to WOT, remove the coil wire from the distributor. Then crank it over a few times to get pressure readings
 

CurrentObsession

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Yes checking fuel pressure is going to be part of the diagnostics too. You need a special fitting from Mercruiser to go inline of the inlet fuel hose right at the back of the throttle body.

Okay may as well order it now.
​Can anyone tell me what the part number is and does it come with a gauge?
Thanks
 

alldodge

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Yes its 91-806901 but should also be able to get it from a local auto shop

TBI adapter 91-806901.jpg
 

CurrentObsession

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Update..

​Cold engine started on first try today with A and B jumped, tack said 1000rpm (Did I mention I don't have much trust in its accuracy?) Put the timing light on it and was surprised to see it at 0 degrees, rotated the distributor till 8. Turned engine off and removed jumper. Engine started right away, tack said 750. At idle it shows like 15 degrees and when reved up I don't even see the sticker anymore. Sounds good and smooth........ but it always does in the driveway.

​Also, just in the few minutes it was running I was surprised to see so much soot or what ever it is on the lawn directly under the prop where the hot water and exhaust mostly comes from. What might this be an indicator of?
 

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