3 hp Got spark Dry plugs Won't start?

[WALLEYE DIVER]

I went to fire up my jw14 3hp lastnight after I did a tune up using a tune up kit from the mastertech site. I got nothing. <br /><br />I pulled on it about 10 times and it would not fire. The plugs are sparking good, so I think I have my ignition parts (new points, condensors, coils) installed correctly. I used an ohm meter to set the timing as described on Tom Travis's website. Although being the first time I have done this I have not ruled out the timing being the problem. <br /><br />I believe the problem is that the spark plugs look very dry after I tried to start the motor and pulled the plugs for a look. <br /><br />During the tune up I took the carb completely apart and soaked everything after I removed all the gaskets and packing. <br /><br />My only guess is the float is not set right, but I have it set so that when it sits level it closes the float needle.<br /><br />Any ideas what to look for?

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: 3 hp Got spark Dry plugs Won't start?

First, check that you've got adequate flow from the tank by disconnecting the fuel line from the carb and opening the spigot. The filter in them is prone to clog very easily.<br />Next see if you have any fuel in the carburetor itself by loosening the brass drain screw on the bottom of the bowl of the carb.<br /><br />If you've got all that, then most likely a passage in the carb is still clogged. Did you remove and clean behind the soft metal plug? Have you still got the replacement? Have you got your initial mix settings set? Choke closing all the way?<br /><br />After a few pulls the spark plugs ought to be damp with fuel.<br /><br />One last idea, if you used a rubber tipped needle, did you also connect the tiny spring which holds the needle to the float? Sometimes those rubber tipped needles get stuck in the seat, and the spring is absolutely necessary to get them unstuck.<br /><br />If you've got good spark, then your timing is at least close. The float setting is not very critical if you've got an adjustable high speed mix control. Just so long as it shuts off the fuel and isn't dragging on the side of the bowl or something.

 

[Xcusme]

Re: 3 hp Got spark Dry plugs Won't start?

Try spraying fuel mix into the carb throat, it should run for a few seconds. Carb float level, invert carb body, float should be level with gasket surface. Gently blow air into fuel inlet to test needle sealing. Inverted, no air should pass needle.<br /><br />(Carburetor Adjustments - Two Adjustable N/Vs)<br />(J. Reeves)<br /><br />Initial settings are: Bottom high speed = seat gently, then open 1 turn out. Top slow speed = seat gently, then open 1-1/2 turns.<br /><br />Setting the high and low needle valves properly:<br /><br />NOTE: For engines that DO NOT have a shift selection, obviously there is no NEUTRAL position. Simply lower the rpms to the lowest setting to obtain the low speed needle va /lve adjustment.<br /><br />(High Speed) Start engine (it will run pretty rough), shift into forward gear, take up to full throttle. In segments of 1/8 turn, wating for the engine to respond between turns, start turning in the bottom high speed needle valve. You'll reach a point whereas the engine will either start to die out or spit back (sounds like a mild backfire). At that point, back out the needle valve 1/4 turn. Within that 1/4 turn, you'll find the smoothest setting.<br /><br />(Low Speed) Slow the engine down to where it just stays running. Shift into neutral. Again in segments of 1/8 turns, start to turn the top needle valve in. Wait a few seconds for the engine to respond. As you turn the valve in, the rpms will increase. Lower the rpms again to where the engine will just stay running. Eventually you'll hit the point where the engine wants to die out or it will spit back. Again, at that point, back out the valve 1/4 turn. Within that 1/4 turn, you'll find the smoothest slow speed setting.<br /><br />When you have finished the above adjustments, you will have no reason to move them again unless the carburetor fouls/gums up from sitting, in which case you would be required to remove, clean, and rebuild the carburetor anyway.

 

[WALLEYE DIVER]

Re: 3 hp Got spark Dry plugs Won't start?

Originally posted by Paul Moir:<br /> First, check that you've got adequate flow from the tank by disconnecting the fuel line from the carb and opening the spigot. The filter in them is prone to clog very easily.<br />Next see if you have any fuel in the carburetor itself by loosening the brass drain screw on the bottom of the bowl of the carb.<br /><br />I THINK ITS GETTING GOOD FUEL FLOW, AFTER I TRIED TO START IT I TOOK THE FLOAT BOWL OFF TO CHECK THE FLOAT LEVEL AND THERE WAS FUEL IN THE BOWL. <br /><br />If you've got all that, then most likely a passage in the carb is still clogged. Did you remove and clean behind the soft metal plug? Have you still got the replacement? Have you got your initial mix settings set? Choke closing all the way?<br /><br /> I DID REMOVE AND REPLACE WITH A NEW METAL PLUG. I HAVE INITIAL MIX SETTINGS CORRECT. I WILL HAVE TO CHECK THE CHOKE CLOSING ALL THE WAY BUT I BELIEVE IT IS. <br /><br />After a few pulls the spark plugs ought to be damp with fuel.<br /><br />One last idea, if you used a rubber tipped needle, did you also connect the tiny spring which holds the needle to the float? Sometimes those rubber tipped needles get stuck in the seat, and the spring is absolutely necessary to get them unstuck.<br /> <br />YES I HAVE THE SPRING ON, AND IT LOOKS LIKE ITS OPERATING PROPERLY. <br /><br />If you've got good spark, then your timing is at least close. The float setting is not very critical if you've got an adjustable high speed mix control. Just so long as it shuts off the fuel and isn't dragging on the side of the bowl or something.

THAT IS ONE OTHER IDEA I HAD... IS THERE A GOOD WAY TO TEST IF THE FLOAT IS DRAGGIN ON THE SIDE OF THE BOWL?

 

[WALLEYE DIVER]

Re: 3 hp Got spark Dry plugs Won't start?

A couple questions on squirting fuel into the carb.<br /><br />Would putting some gas in an old windex type bottle and a couple squirts in the choke do the trick?<br /><br />If the motor fires and then dies out after doing this what should I look for the problem to be?

 

[Xcusme]

Re: 3 hp Got spark Dry plugs Won't start?

Spray bottle is fine. Use gas/oil mixture. If the motor fires for a few seconds, it points to a fuel delivery problem in the carb or tank.<br /><br />You didn't mention it, but a compression test would be a good idea too, just to get a baseline reading for future reference. You'll need fuel,compression and spark to get her to run.

 

[WALLEYE DIVER]

Re: 3 hp Got spark Dry plugs Won't start?

Is there anything in the carb that I can eliminate by it starting from squirting gas into it... or could it be anything?<br /><br />I guess what I mean is, if it starts, can I concentrate on my float being the problem, or do I need to take the whole carb apart again... blow it out and see if a passage has something blocking it?

 

[Xcusme]

Re: 3 hp Got spark Dry plugs Won't start?

Spraying a bit of fuel into the carb throat and having it run for a few seconds confirms that ignition and compression are adequate. If you're getting fuel into the carb bowl,that leaves the idle control circuit in the carb. If the passages are still clogged, little or no fuel is getting into the intake. Did you just clean and re-assemble carb or did you install a carb rebuild kit to include the gaskets etc? The usual procedure is to disassemble carb,spray all passages with carb cleaner followed with compressed air. Replace all gaskets and needle packings. Set initial low and high speed mixture settings. The carb to manifiold gasket is important too.A leaking carb-intake manifold gasket will kill the vacuum thru the carb,no fuelmix, no run.

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: 3 hp Got spark Dry plugs Won't start?

The only good way to test if the float is dragging is to tap the bowl with a screwdriver handle and see if the engine starts running.

 

[WALLEYE DIVER]

Re: 3 hp Got spark Dry plugs Won't start?

I did just as you described with the carb. I took it completely apart, pulled the needles out and soaked everything in carb dip over night. Than I took them out of carb cleaner and used compressed air and blew out all passages. I reassembled the carb with new gaskets and packing that came with the tune kit. I also put a new float and needle in that came with the kit.<br /><br />thanks for the ideas guys!! keep em coming if you can think of any more. I appreciate anything you can add.<br /><br />I have a few things to try out tonight to see if I can get her going.

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: 3 hp Got spark Dry plugs Won't start?

You adjusted the float height right? Spring on the needle? How about that convex soft metal plug? Behind there is the idle orifaces, the narrowest passages in the carburetor.<br /><br />No sense pulling it apart until you run Xcusme's test, just gathering information for when it fires on it.

 

[WALLEYE DIVER]

Re: 3 hp Got spark Dry plugs Won't start?

ya I adjust the float to set level with the needle closed, or level with the gasket surface.<br /><br />there is a good picture of how the spring goes on to the metal tab of the float on the mastertech site, it also shows how the float should be set level with the gasket surface. I have this done just like its shown there. <br /><br />I did take off the soft metal piece and made sure to blow air thru the small holes behind it, and then replace the soft metal piece with a new one supplied with the tune kit.

 

[Xcusme]

Re: 3 hp Got spark Dry plugs Won't start?

When you installed that core plug...did you install it with the convex side (dome up) and flatten it flush to the carb body with a flat punch?

 

[WALLEYE DIVER]

Re: 3 hp Got spark Dry plugs Won't start?

yes, convex side up. yes a couple light taps with a flat screw driver to make it stay in.

 

[Xcusme]

Re: 3 hp Got spark Dry plugs Won't start?

OK, then it's the spray bottle next...be sure to test run in tank with water a few inches above cavitation plate.

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: 3 hp Got spark Dry plugs Won't start?

Thanks, it sounds like the carb is 100% then. I'm anxious to hear the results of Xcusme's test.

 

[AlexeiVT]

Re: 3 hp Got spark Dry plugs Won't start?

For what it's worth, and I know it seems almost too obvious...but are you sure you are sucking up straight fuel/oil mix into the system from your tank (and not any water off the bottom)...or old last year's gas for that matter.<br /><br />The reason I ask, and I'm not too proud to admit it, is that I overlooked this once, as a matter of coincidence, and chased down fruitlessly until I discovered the problem.<br /><br />You mentioned in an earlier post, clean dry plugs...and water in the combustion cyclinder usually cleans things up pretty good, so perhaps it's a possible explanation.<br /><br />In my case, I actually had the boat out and running, then it would bog down, and as soon as it slowed, it would pick right up again. Carb problems were suspected, but turned out not to be the culprit. As fate would have it, I filled up my fuel tank a week previous, and felt it was covered up well enough from the elements. It turned out, it rained torrentially that week while I was away, and a sufficient amount of water got into the tank. When the tank sloshed at the right angle, the pickup got gas...when the boat planed, water sloshed over and the engine bogged. When I let it sit overnight, it became apparent by looking at the glass filter bowl on the side of the motor, as the emulsion of water and fuel seperated, whereas before it was difficult discern there was a mix of gas/water.<br /><br />Hope it's something simple, let us know how it goes...if it fires on some premixed fuel/oil being sprayed into the carb via a Windex bottle (I carry one w/ me now always), then it points to bad fuel pickup in the existing tanks, or something blocking fuel delivery in the carb's orifices (if you spary it quick enough long enough, you can even keep it running that way for a while, even w/out the carb attached).

 

[Scaaty]

Re: 3 hp Got spark Dry plugs Won't start?

Hate to state the obvious, but if it has a internal tank, did ya open the TAP? Aint (on my end) the first time I couldn't get the damn thing started, but worked pretty good when I opened the gas! And when I check for spark, I have a little squirt can can with Premix in it. Squirt a good shot (it does not have to be spray) into the plugs hole, crank slowly once, put the plugs in, and yank away

 

[WALLEYE DIVER]

Re: 3 hp Got spark Dry plugs Won't start?

Well when I got home lastnight I tried squirting some gas into the carb to start it and got nothing. <br /><br />I thought, great now I got me an expensive anchor... hehehe<br /><br />I pulled the plugs and they were still dry not getting gas.<br /><br />I checked my spark again... it was good.<br /><br />I pulled the carb off and check it over, and double checked my float setting. Everything looked good. So I put it back together. <br /><br />The key this time was that I decided to make sure I tightened the screws around the float bowl much tighter this time... reading that over tightening these screws can damage the bowl I didn't get them very tight the first go around. I also made sure I tightened the 2 nuts where the carb mounts to the power head tighter. <br /><br />It started right up... I think it was sucking air thru the gaskets.<br /><br />thanks for your help and ideas!

 

[Xcusme]

Re: 3 hp Got spark Dry plugs Won't start?

Glad you got things sorted out. The carb body screws should be tight , but not overly torqued. The carb to manifold nuts are very important. If the carb to manifold gasket is sucking air, the motor can run very lean, perhaps not at all.