2008 Chaparral 275 SSI 8.1 Volvo Penta GXI-J Soft Alarm Issues

[alldodge]

Just reread my posts --- surprised I couldn't edit a post after 1 hour, might be something new, thought I used to be able to ---- sorry for the rant in the second one. But in the one I offered actual advise. I was wrong on the KS needing 15 ft.lb. oops should be 14 ft.lb. probably doesn't matter that much. But as my bride says. "muc isn't anal he's meticulous"

Reading every word with interest and while I can't offer much I can fix the 15 to 14

 

[muc]

Reading every word with interest and while I can't offer much I can fix the 15 to 14

Thank you. I give you and @tpenfield (and of course the other mods) a lot of credit for the time you folks spend trying to help. I only hope no one takes offense when I chime in on things I think are wrong. Without people like you this forum would be filled with bad information.

 

[apisk]

Unfortunately the engine serial number doesn't work like a VIN does. Your boats HIN -- hull identification number -- kind of does, but doesn't include any engine or drive info like a VIN does.
The partial serial number you supplied does tell us that you have an "early" -J model. The serial break is 4012248515
The product number does tell us for sure that you do have a 8.1GXi-J but doesn't help with early/late. I think the early/late only matters when ordering parts, but not 100% sure on that.
Did you try the drive and/or transom serial numbers?

7749393 EGC Diagnostics is the manual you use for troubleshooting codes.

Ha Ha I just looked at my copy on page 239 it has the troubleshooting tree ----- it's wrong! ----- has a reference of 5Ω and tells you a resistance of less then 5Ω indicates a bad harness. Well that's not correct. Less than 5Ω is good. higher is bad and needs to be tracked down. Just another example of why you should never blindly follow a manual, need to have some common sense.

Look in the Volvo Book section in your Diacom for:
EGC Fuel Injection System Operation and Diagnosis
This Training Publication covers all
Non-Catalyst EGC engines
07/2008

Lots of good info in that book, it's a copy of the book that we all get when we attend EGC school. Has a lot of theory.

I knew that Mercury Marine wouldn't allow Rinda to include any of their manuals, in fact i have always been surprised Volvo allows it. But I guess even Volvo has their limits.

If your wire harness is good and you install a new KS. Getting it torqued to 14 ft. lb. is important. The new one should have the correct sealant on it. Don't add anything to this sealant. Teflon tape messes this up.

Diacom does have the "EGC Fuel Injection System Operation and Diagnosis" available, I will definitely go through this to familiarize myself overall just to have a better grasp on things. For reference, attached screenshot shows the manuals available via Diacom

I wasn't able to find any serial numbers from the drive or transom unfortunately, but glad to hear that we can at least narrow it down to an early 8.1 GXI-J (with relative confidence)

The torque wrench I have is a minimum of 20 ft lb, so am waiting for one to get delivered this afternoon that has a minimum of 10 ft lb so I can set it to the proper 14. Once that is complete, I will take it out for a run with Diacom running and see what we get logged

 

[tpenfield]

Doesn’t the Diacom data screen show the engine S/N?

 

[apisk]

Update for @muc @tpenfield @alldodge

I replaced the Knock Sensor #2 and it was in rough shape, just took the boat out and for 4 minutes straight ran it between 3000-4000 RPM with no alarms. Attaching the Diacom log for it. Do you see improvements from replacing the Knock Sensor #2? I want to take it out later for a longer ride, but wanted to at least test it out. The acceleration starts right after the 4 minute mark

Volvo EGC CAN ETC 07 21 2023 13 28 16.rec

drive.google.com

 

[tpenfield]

That is good news. I’ll be able to take a look at the data later this evening or early tomorrow.

 

[tpenfield]

the knock retard values are much better, only going to 2.45˚ during acceleration/load conditions. Before it was pegging at 5˚ and activating the warning.

 

[muc]

Update for @muc @tpenfield @alldodge

I replaced the Knock Sensor #2 and it was in rough shape, just took the boat out and for 4 minutes straight ran it between 3000-4000 RPM with no alarms. Attaching the Diacom log for it. Do you see improvements from replacing the Knock Sensor #2? I want to take it out later for a longer ride, but wanted to at least test it out. The acceleration starts right after the 4 minute mark

Volvo EGC CAN ETC 07 21 2023 13 28 16.rec

drive.google.com

Yes I see a vast improvement. If you look at the KS voltage they are now very close to each other. Before KS 2 was much lower than KS1.
I’m pretty sure the soft warning was due to KS 2 voltage falling below 0.1 volts. This was latching and unlatching so fast it didn’t meet the requirements to set a code but did set a soft warning. Kind of a glitch in the program. This is one that would have been much harder to diagnose with a techmate, But not too bad with Diacom.
On this engine, knock retard will not set a code or warning. It’s actually normal to see on a properly functioning engine. What happens with this type of engine is the spark advance is always hunting around (once the correct parameters have been met) to find the best possible power/efficiency. This is one of the reasons why EFI engines will always beat carb engines. It gets even better once O2 sensors are added because then fuel adjustments can be fine tuned.
@apisk I see octane rating is now a little higher. Did you add fuel between these last 2 recordings? I don’t have a really great grasp on how exactly this works, so always trying to learn when I see these changes.

Well congratulations, it looks like you got this one sorted out. Thanks for letting me help.

 

[dubs283]

Do I need to find a new profession!?

I have no quarrels about repairing anything, I do have a difficult time finding the proper replacement parts save for complete components

 

[apisk]

@muc @alldodge @tpenfield I owe you all a huge thanks for the support, troubleshooting, and overall insights on this issue. I had the boat out all day yesterday with no alarms or any issues thankfully. I appreciate the explanations of everything so that I can better understand the mechanics and not just the "change this" solution. I hope future users with similar issues can reference this thread for answers

@muc I did not add fuel since the last 2 recordings, are the levels of concern or just something that stood out?

 

[tpenfield]

@muc @alldodge @tpenfield I owe you all a huge thanks for the support, troubleshooting, and overall insights on this issue. I had the boat out all day yesterday with no alarms or any issues thankfully. I appreciate the explanations of everything so that I can better understand the mechanics and not just the "change this" solution. I hope future users with similar issues can reference this thread for answers

@muc I did not add fuel since the last 2 recordings, are the levels of concern or just something that stood out?

I'm glad it has a happy ending. Although the TCP and Volt Ref #2 were misleading at first, the data showed the way. It shows that you really need the computer software to be able to fix these engines.

 

[apisk]

I'm glad it has a happy ending. Although the TCP and Volt Ref #2 were misleading at first, the data showed the way. It shows that you really need the computer software to be able to fix these engines.

That's a great point, having the Diacom software myself was the ultimate factor for this. It is worth calling out that I called a few local shops before coming to this forum who all said that the soft alarms were "not" stored and the only way to capture them would be to run the software while out running the boat. In my experience, that was not true, Diacom was able to read the soft alarms from previous runs. I don't know if this is always the case.

 

[tpenfield]

That's a great point, having the Diacom software myself was the ultimate factor for this. It is worth calling out that I called a few local shops before coming to this forum who all said that the soft alarms were "not" stored and the only way to capture them would be to run the software while out running the boat. In my experience, that was not true, Diacom was able to read the soft alarms from previous runs. I don't know if this is always the case.

I see that as the issue with some of the dealers/service shops; they don't necessarily know enough about the new engines.

 

[muc]

@muc @alldodge @tpenfield I owe you all a huge thanks for the support, troubleshooting, and overall insights on this issue. I had the boat out all day yesterday with no alarms or any issues thankfully. I appreciate the explanations of everything so that I can better understand the mechanics and not just the "change this" solution. I hope future users with similar issues can reference this thread for answers

@muc I did not add fuel since the last 2 recordings, are the levels of concern or just something that stood out?

Just something that stood out. It's hard for me to look at the recordings without being in the boat to know water conditions and how the operator is using the boat. Also, sometimes people will post 2 recordings without telling us they changed something between them.

 

[muc]

That's a great point, having the Diacom software myself was the ultimate factor for this. It is worth calling out that I called a few local shops before coming to this forum who all said that the soft alarms were "not" stored and the only way to capture them would be to run the software while out running the boat. In my experience, that was not true, Diacom was able to read the soft alarms from previous runs. I don't know if this is always the case.

Having been a dealer tech for many years, I have to defend them some.
Generally when you call a shop you don't talk to a tech, our time is to valuable to spend on random phone calls. You will get a service writer or at best the service manager. These people usually don't have a lot of technical knowledge. But they sometimes seem to feel that they should try to answer your question. The best one I worked under was amazing! (shout out to Les F.) He was more then willing to say "I don't know but I know how to find out". He really didn't have a clue what exactly I did, but he had a great memory and he was able to take what I was telling him and translate it to the customer. People trusted him because he was honest.

Soft alarms won't always set a code. There are certain parameters that must be met before a code is logged. It looks like that in your case here the KS 2 voltage wasn't dropping below 0.1 volts long enough to set the code, but was long enough to sound the horn.