2008 Chaparral 275 SSI 8.1 Volvo Penta GXI-J Soft Alarm Issues

[apisk]

The variance between the two can have many many reasons. Speed based/Lever based, engine load, boats speed, etc.. I haven't seen anything that would make me question TCP/TPS. What did you find that led you to want to replace the TCP or TPS? Did you run the diagnostic program in Diacom? If I remember right it's in the fly-by-wire section.

How much does a TPS for this engine cost?

The TCP replacement theory came from the troubleshooting on this thread where we saw the 5V Ref #2 having low voltage, until I unplugged the TCP where it jumped up to the 5V. Based on your recent comments, it seems that was not accurate so no need to have replaced the TCP. I found a GM version of the throttle body that has the TPS riveted on for $100 so figured it wasn't too costly to attempt a replacement to see the results and return if nothing changes. I have not done the diagnostic program (admittedly I did not know this existed, but do see it now)

 

[apisk]

Missed that your going to replace the KS? Have you done all the troubleshooting tests? Replacing the KS is last in the diag tree.

The only troubleshooting specific to the KS has been the Diacom logs that I shared in post 30 and 75 where the Code was flagging it and the voltage drops you called out. Also, the unplugging of the sensor to check the 5V ref #2 data. Besides that, no other troubleshooting steps have been done specific to the KS. Can you share what those might be?

 

[muc]

Unfortunately I don't have the owners manual as I am not the original owner of the boat, so just going off of what I can find online. I do have a copy of the EGC Diagnostics Workshop Manual from the Diacom software

You can download a free copy from Volvo

Manuals & Handbooks | Volvo Penta US

Workshop manuals, owners manuals and service protocols for your engine. Get your manual and service protocol here.

www.volvopenta.com

I'm curious what the part number and publication date the diagnostic manual is. The copy I have is VPA 7749393 English 2010-12 and I think it might have been the first edition because it's filled with many errors.

 

[muc]

The TCP replacement theory came from the troubleshooting on this thread where we saw the 5V Ref #2 having low voltage, until I unplugged the TCP where it jumped up to the 5V. Based on your recent comments, it seems that was not accurate so no need to have replaced the TCP. I found a GM version of the throttle body that has the TPS riveted on for $100 so figured it wasn't too costly to attempt a replacement to see the results and return if nothing changes. I have not done the diagnostic program (admittedly I did not know this existed, but do see it now)

Ya I would hold off on that for a few reasons.

 

[muc]

The only troubleshooting specific to the KS has been the Diacom logs that I shared in post 30 and 75 where the Code was flagging it and the voltage drops you called out. Also, the unplugging of the sensor to check the 5V ref #2 data. Besides that, no other troubleshooting steps have been done specific to the KS. Can you share what those might be?

SPN-520197 FMI-4 is DTC 0332 - Knock Sensor 2 Open
Pages 238-239 in my manual.

 

[apisk]

You can download a free copy from Volvo

Manuals & Handbooks | Volvo Penta US

Workshop manuals, owners manuals and service protocols for your engine. Get your manual and service protocol here.

www.volvopenta.com

I'm curious what the part number and publication date the diagnostic manual is. The copy I have is VPA 7749393 English 2010-12 and I think it might have been the first edition because it's filled with many errors.

The version Diacom provides is VPA 7743614 English 07-2005

 

[apisk]

SPN-520197 FMI-4 is DTC 0332 - Knock Sensor 2 Open
Pages 238-239 in my manual.

Once I can get the serial number (it's raining here today, so hopefully tomorrow morning) I can download the manual and see. From previous conversations, it is an 8.1 GXI-J, but I do not have the serial number yet to 100% confirm that

 

[muc]

The version Diacom provides is VPA 7743614 English 07-2005

That's EFI Repair not Diagnostics and while it's a good manual to read because it covers a lot of basics that you need to know. You will need 7749393 because that covers the actual diagnostics.
Also you might want to contact Rinda because 7743614 has been updated to;
VPA 7743614 English 03-2016
What has changed I don't know but like in the case of 7749393 I have found the first edition can have many errors that lead to misdiagnosis kind of like how 5volt ref #2 sent you down a unnecessary rabbit hole. As one of my instructors said "if you don't understand the theory, you'll never know when the manual is giving bad information"

The model "J" engines are hard because they fell between "Legacy" and the current engines. Sometimes you use an older manual and sometimes you need a generation newer manual.

 

[apisk]

Once I can get the serial number (it's raining here today, so hopefully tomorrow morning) I can download the manual and see. From previous conversations, it is an 8.1 GXI-J, but I do not have the serial number yet to 100% confirm that

Are you able to share a screenshot of this page in the meantime? Raining here for another hour or so then going to plan to go out

 

[apisk]

Ya I would hold off on that for a few reasons.

Do you believe there is any validity in the TPC/TPS causing the soft alarm? I won't even bother opening the new TPS assembly if not

 

[muc]

Are you able to share a screenshot of this page in the meantime? Raining here for another hour or so then going to plan to go out

Unfortunately no, it’s copyrighted.

 

[muc]

Do you believe there is any validity in the TPC/TPS causing the soft alarm? I won't even bother opening the new TPS assembly if not

At this point, no. I haven’t seen anything that would lead me there. But we don’t know exactly what engine you have. Also haven’t seen enough data on the TCP/TPS to say good or bad. What we have seen looks good.

This thread has brought up a point that I wish more people were aware of. To bad it’s buried on page 6 where most will never see it.
The 5v ref #2 going low when under load would be a big red flag on many engines And maybe on this engine. We can’t be 100% sure without the serial number. But I’m fairly sure this is one that does it.
The CKP is another example of this. On most engines this sensor is necessary for the engine to start and run, but on some engines when diagnosing a “no start” you would unplug this sensor to determine if it’s the problem. The only way to know is having the serial number and the knowledge of how this particular engine works.

Hint on finding the serial number!
If this engine was properly registered when new you can use the drive or transom serial number to find what engine they were paired with when sold. Just go to the Volvo link I posted earlier and input them.

 

[tpenfield]

I look at this thread (and issue) as a good example of how complicated the marine engines are today. Even with the computer diagnostics to show the engine data, there are so many variables and situations to consider.

Makes my head hurt . . .

 

[apw30534]

I look at this thread (and issue) as a good example of how complicated the marine engines are today. Even with the computer diagnostics to show the engine data, there are so many variables and situations to consider.

Makes my head hurt . . .

And really makes the old-timers like me, wish for a carburetor and HEI distributor again.

 

[apisk]

@muc the plate that has the serial number is pretty destroyed and faded and I am having real trouble determining the last 2 numbers. What I can say with pretty good confidence is that the first numbers are 40122305. Do you know if like a car certain numbers represent certain things that we can backwards decipher it like a VIN?

I was able to get the Product Number off the plate - 3869415. Based on the screenshot, which manual do I need that I am missing?

 

[apisk]

I look at this thread (and issue) as a good example of how complicated the marine engines are today. Even with the computer diagnostics to show the engine data, there are so many variables and situations to consider.

Makes my head hurt . . .

But hopefully this will serve as answers (once we get to them) for future forum members experiencing the same issue!

 

[apisk]

That's EFI Repair not Diagnostics and while it's a good manual to read because it covers a lot of basics that you need to know. You will need 7749393 because that covers the actual diagnostics.
Also you might want to contact Rinda because 7743614 has been updated to;
VPA 7743614 English 03-2016
What has changed I don't know but like in the case of 7749393 I have found the first edition can have many errors that lead to misdiagnosis kind of like how 5volt ref #2 sent you down a unnecessary rabbit hole. As one of my instructors said "if you don't understand the theory, you'll never know when the manual is giving bad information"

The model "J" engines are hard because they fell between "Legacy" and the current engines. Sometimes you use an older manual and sometimes you need a generation newer manual.

I reached out to Rinda about updated versions and their response was below:

Unfortunately, we don't have any access to any
additional documentation or manuals
These manuals are provided by the engine
manufacturers and we are limited to what they choose to provide to us
Some manufacturers, such as Mercury/Mercruiser
choose not to give us any documentation to include in Diacom
Some engine manufacturers have online versions of their manuals available

 

[muc]

@muc the plate that has the serial number is pretty destroyed and faded and I am having real trouble determining the last 2 numbers. What I can say with pretty good confidence is that the first numbers are 40122305. Do you know if like a car certain numbers represent certain things that we can backwards decipher it like a VIN?View attachment 385158

I was able to get the Product Number off the plate - 3869415. Based on the screenshot, which manual do I need that I am missing?

Unfortunately the engine serial number doesn't work like a VIN does. Your boats HIN -- hull identification number -- kind of does, but doesn't include any engine or drive info like a VIN does.
The partial serial number you supplied does tell us that you have an "early" -J model. The serial break is 4012248515
The product number does tell us for sure that you do have a 8.1GXi-J but doesn't help with early/late. I think the early/late only matters when ordering parts, but not 100% sure on that.
Did you try the drive and/or transom serial numbers?

7749393 EGC Diagnostics is the manual you use for troubleshooting codes.

Ha Ha I just looked at my copy on page 239 it has the troubleshooting tree ----- it's wrong! ----- has a reference of 5Ω and tells you a resistance of less then 5Ω indicates a bad harness. Well that's not correct. Less than 5Ω is good. higher is bad and needs to be tracked down. Just another example of why you should never blindly follow a manual, need to have some common sense.

Look in the Volvo Book section in your Diacom for:
EGC Fuel Injection System Operation and Diagnosis
This Training Publication covers all
Non-Catalyst EGC engines
07/2008

Lots of good info in that book, it's a copy of the book that we all get when we attend EGC school. Has a lot of theory.

I knew that Mercury Marine wouldn't allow Rinda to include any of their manuals, in fact i have always been surprised Volvo allows it. But I guess even Volvo has their limits.

If your wire harness is good and you install a new KS. Getting it torqued to 14 ft. lb. is important. The new one should have the correct sealant on it. Don't add anything to this sealant. Teflon tape messes this up.

 

[muc]

I look at this thread (and issue) as a good example of how complicated the marine engines are today. Even with the computer diagnostics to show the engine data, there are so many variables and situations to consider.

Makes my head hurt . . .

Talking to techs that are still in the business, they tell me it's still getting worse. Most of the techs I worked with got into being a mechanic because they had good aptitude at taking things apart and putting them back together or were like me --- wanted to have a car but couldn't afford to pay someone to fix it. Because of this many of my co-workers and other techs I met at the factory schools struggled with reading comprehension. One day I showed up to work and there are 3 techs standing by the time clock looking at the newest service bulletin. It talked about how Volvo had inadvertently omitted a washer and we should keep our eyes open and install one if it wasn't there. Those 3 guys had no idea what that meant and asked me. Told them that Volvo forgot the washer by mistake. One asked me "are you sure?" I said oh ya I'm sure. This is what we're up against, technical writers that can't "read the room" and a workforce that had inadequate parents/teachers.
One of the places I worked at tried recruiting from the local vo-tech electronics program with promises of fun on the water and bikini babes walking the docks. We got 2 but they quickly figured out that it can be a dirty and hot job. One lasted 3 weeks the other who had me as his mentor lasted almost 3 months. When he gave his notice he told me he had realized it would be better for him to take a better paying easier job and just buy his own boat.

Unless something changes I think we are headed to something like starters and alternators. Back when I went to Vo-tech we learned how to rebuild them because that's what mechanics did back then. You can't afford $150 hr shop rate to do that anymore. We just order a new or reman starter now and swap it out. I'm afraid we are headed to the point that if there is an issue with one of these fly-by-wire computer engine. Just swap it out with a new/reman package. In the meantime please give some consideration to "right to repair" when deciding who to give your vote to in the next election.

 

[muc]

Just reread my posts --- surprised I couldn't edit a post after 1 hour, might be something new, thought I used to be able to ---- sorry for the rant in the second one. But in the one I offered actual advise. I was wrong on the KS needing 15 ft.lb. oops should be 14 ft.lb. probably doesn't matter that much. But as my bride says. "muc isn't anal he's meticulous"