2005 Robalo 230R with soft spots in deck

[flipfloplife]

Hi. I've never been on this forum -- found via THT recommendation when I was reading old threads re: my scary problem (no, it's not a rash, at least as far as you know). I currently have about 15 threads open on this forum learning about different pieces of the question I'm about to ask -- but I'm so dumb on this I'm not sure where to start.

I have a 2005 Robalo 230R, Yam 300. It lives in the canal behind my house and I get out a lot. The downside is that I'm active duty and have to solve my own problems (aka - I recently became involuntarily incredibly familiar w/ the fuel system of the HPDI) because boat guys down here get paid more in an hour than I do in a week. Anyway - whole point of this paragraph is that I spearfish the heck outta my boat.

The problem. Two years ago I noticed that there was a "squishy spot" when I stood at the helm. After I noticed that one I noticed two more. This did not make me happy. I contacted Robalo and got sent basically straight to the seeming legal department where they explained to me that I had not transferred the hull warranty in triplicate with my TPS coversheet when I bought the boat, etc, etc. Since the spots weren't that bad and I had a deployment coming up - I blew it off, drank beer and shot fish.

Fast forward to now. The spots are still there. I can't honestly say if they are better or worse ... but they are itching my psyche. Generically they are about 7" in diameter and don't seem to correspond to any pattern. My questions:

Q1: Is my boat rotting? (I'll grab underside pics of at least one of the spots tomorrow -- there is an access hatch)
Q2: Am I on a timer to deal w/ this problem? (ie if I don't do it this week will my stringers rot?)
Q3: I can envision much of the repair, or at least the generic steps and idea of it as I read other people's posts. I'm not entirely terrified to take a sawzall to my deck if that's what it's going to take (can we rebuild the livewell drain if we do that?? Design blows) - BUT -- my deck is this cris cross non skid stuff. The fiberglass books I've bought (hey - I did look at the pictures and read the captions) don't even mention how to deal with this stuff.
Q4: How do I know what's under my deck? Where stringers are, tanks, lines, etc. E-mail out to Robalo on this ... we'll see how that goes.
Q5: I am decent w/ the grinder and have done very rough fiberglass work (with close supervision) but have no idea how I would deal w/ the final gelcoat part of all of this. There are areas that would need to be non skid and some areas gelcoat.
Q5: What is my boat made of? In other words -- should I expect totally sealed stringers? Will they be wood underneath? What sort of fiberglass resin was used to make the boat originally? Will there be foam under there? How thick is the main part of my deck -- it has wood in it?

I apologize in advance for my own stupidity, I am trying to catch up and un-stupid myself by reading all the posts on here that even remotely correspond to my search terms. I will provide photos tomorrow -- any requests of what I should shoot? There are a few access hatches around the deck.

Here are the basic sites of horror marked by my daughters green crayola in the following pics.

 

[emoney]

Re: 2005 Robalo 230R with soft spots in deck

First of all, welcome to iBoats and thanks for your service to our country. It truly does mean a LOT to a LOT of us!
As to the Robalo, I'm the furthest from any of the "experts" around here, but they'll be along soon enough, and this keeps your thread towards the top! (You can t hank me later). However, I do feel confident enough to answer 1 & 2:
Q1: It could, but it could also mean they did a horrible job at the factory securing deck to framework. You wouldn't be the 1st. As they say, "Proof is in the pudding", so there's only 1 way to know.
Q2: If it is "rot", then think of it as 'cancer' and I believe you'll have your answer. The longer you put it off, the worse it's going to get, not counting the damage to your phsyche.
Q3-Q5: I don't know, why are you asking me? Sheesh!

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: 2005 Robalo 230R with soft spots in deck

you are on the right path with contacting robalo to find out what the construction materials are around 2000 to 2002 boat builders started to change the materials used from wood to non-rot materials the trouble is that it didnt happen overnight at every boat builders so its hard to tell what the floor and stringers are made off. so lets hope for a ans on what the floor is from either the factory or another robalo owner. the sooner any problem is dealt with the better but again you have to understand what the problem is before trying to fix it and that goes back to the materials used.
the picture is to small to real tell what part we are looking at because im seeing the crayon marks on what looks like raised panels or is that joining strips on the floor for the laminate?
we try not to cut holes etc in a boat using the skill and expericance of people on here we try to reverse the way the boat was built to get to the parts that need replacing this may lead to some cutting but even then we try to cut the parts that are being replaced so lots of pics realy help to decied on how the boat was assembled (that and we like pictures)

 

[mrdjflores]

Re: 2005 Robalo 230R with soft spots in deck

first off, welcome to iboats!!!!
there are many EXPERTS on this forum that will chime in to help you out...and from my experience, i have no problem calling them EXPERTS.
secondly, as glenn stated, we love pictures, the more the better.
glance over this thread to help you learn about getting pictures loaded/linked into your thread.
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=530391

and finally, thank you for your service to our country...if i lived down there, i'd chip in all the labor i can for free ( i grew up in a military family and i fully understand, and appalled, at our military's pay grade )

 

[flipfloplife]

Re: 2005 Robalo 230R with soft spots in deck

I re-attempted contact w/ Robalo -- surprisingly the nice lady gave me the same e-mail address as the lady who didn't help me much in 2010 or 2011 (I included those e-mails in my current query). I didn't annoy them this time with talk of warranty work -- i just asked for some details/schematics/plans of my boat and the materials and techniques that would have been used at that time. I don't have high hopes (although if someone knows an insider at Robalo I really just want info -- I've given up on the idea that they'd warranty this hull).

So I went out and did a little photo investigative thing. (Trying hard to follow the photobucket instructions from DJFlores but now not sure which pics I'll be talking about).

At first is pic of helm deck area -- i think the dog's right paw is on the soft spot. Then I shot one where my index finger is on the soft spot -- diameter about 7". Then I reached under and felt around. This part was weird -- I "discovered" something under there. felt a bit spongy and bulbous (spelling?) -- anyway I yanked it out. I took a pic of it. felt like soft cork (???) -- is that an alien? Is my boat growing a fungus?? Bamboo (that's my dog) sniffed it and wasn't too interested. Ok -- then I stuck the camera inside and took some more shots trying to get the underneath. not sure how well those really came out. Feels like maybe resin over plywood down there? And personally I'd have used thicker darn plywood -- feels like 1/2" !! I really wish I could talk to just a regular builder of boats type dude at Robalo who could give me some real info -- I'm not trying to sue them - i just want to fix my boat. Anyhow --- then I moved aft and found the other soft spot -- my big toe is on it. No - the pink kid sized snorkel gear is not for sale -- I know you guys are probably wondering where i got that and all... Other impressions from this investigative outing --- the worst one is the one that I shot the pics of -- it flex's approx 3/8's of an inch. Not sure what that ... fungus'y thing was (?).

So ... what do we think?

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: 2005 Robalo 230R with soft spots in deck

the lump of fungus looks like flotaion foam that found a small hole between the deck and stringer when the boat was built.

 

[mrdjflores]

Re: 2005 Robalo 230R with soft spots in deck

what part flex's about 3/8" ???
also, i think you can only link 6 pics per response

 

[QC]

Re: 2005 Robalo 230R with soft spots in deck

Should not be any foam in a 23 footer . . . I know it is not required in boats over 20 ft. What I don't know is if Manufacturers add it anyway. I would be surprised if they did.

 

[QC]

Re: 2005 Robalo 230R with soft spots in deck

There is wood, and there is floatation foam: http://forum.robalo.com/publications/brochures/2005/2005.pdf

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: 2005 Robalo 230R with soft spots in deck

says they stand behind there 10 year warranty on the hull fully transferable. i dont know if the floor is classed as part of the hull but im sure that some polite proding about what needs to be done to transfer the warranty wouldnt hurt. im sure that they would rather assist in fixing the problem then to see a online thread on how to rebuild a floor on a boat thats advertised as under warranty. maybe send them the forum link and ask if one of there techs could assist in the rebuild if the warranty is not being honered

 

[flipfloplife]

Re: 2005 Robalo 230R with soft spots in deck

Flotation foam. HA! So much better than what I thought it was.

The deck itself flex's about 3/8" in these trouble spots. When I say they're soft I mean you can feel it flexing when you stand on it. You're walking around fishing or whatever and then you step on any of these three spots and you go, "ohhh ... that's ... strange in a very unpleasant way". When you reach under there and feel around it's not wet or anything -- it's quite dry and you can tap it. Feels like resin over wood. Just feels thin and ... I dunno... weak? If I was building a boat I'd be using something in the 3/4" range I would think. But then again I build bookshelves that end up weighing like 120#'s so...

QC --- thanks -- at least I can write that stuff down from the brochure and know a little something more than what's in my "manuals".

Yeah re: Robalo ... I contacted them in 2010 about this ... then again in 2011 ... not much love there to be honest. Much talk of paperwork that needed to be done in the past and money that was supposed to be paid in order for the hull to be warranteed (sp?). Less talk about what was wrong and how to fix it. I do like my boat but was fairly unimpressed. Wrote them again on monday (fwd'ing the e-mails from 2010 and 2011) and haven't heard back. Called -- got sent to the voicemail of the same lady whom I been e-mailing. I don't want to think I'm getting the runaround because I genuinely like most things about my boat ... but I do feel like I'm getting the runaround.

SO. How do I go about fixing this? I'm thinking the only way to do this correctly is to tear it out. I can't access 2 of the soft spots from any access hatches. So that's why I was working my questions towards that. I'm thinking it goes something like this:

- figure out how much needs torn out -- probably from the livewell through the beginning of the center console and probably the whole way across. try to stay out of the non-skid part for planned cutting (there are sections of non-skid and sections that aren't -- with some crafty lines this might be possible).
- try to figure out where the outer stringers are and mark it
- drink a beer
- deep breath
- sawzall out the deck from just inside the outer stringers
- put that big deck piece upside down on some sawhorses
- add ... fiberglass ? wood? aluminum stringers? to support these weak areas from underneath
- tie in an extra support stringer just inside the longitudinal ones
- frame up some stringers side to side to support both the deck part that stayed and the deck part taken out
- fiberglass or resin coat those stringers on the dock -- then again once they are in (epoxy them in? no screws right?)
- flip the re-enforced deck back in and fit in place as well as possible -- expect a sawzall blade's width missing on all sides
- ... ok ... this is where i get really weak and confused. probably another beer at this point
- fill the sawzall blade's width of missing material with ... fiberglass? west system?
- sand it . a lot. then learn how to wet sand. and do that a lot. hope that it gets shiny and looks sort of normal. wax.

my concern here is obviously the last part there -- am i going to be able to give a waterproof seal to that cut line? she's a pretty dry hull right now, i'd hate to compromise that. i do do (said it) some offshore stuff and it's all dependent on when i can get leave -- not the weather -- so it isn't that uncommon for me to fill the deck with a few inches of water every once in a while.

Am I nuts? Am I headed in the general right direction?

 

[QC]

Re: 2005 Robalo 230R with soft spots in deck

Why do anything? I knwo it may not feel right, but is it bad? As in what's it hurting today? With that said, a 10 year hull warranty is a 10 year hull warranty. Does it cover the deck/floor? Need to research what it covers.

 

[flipfloplife]

Re: 2005 Robalo 230R with soft spots in deck

Ok -- so, the lady from Robalo called. They don't have any spec sheets on my boat. The only tech data they have on the boat (location of stringers, elec plan, plumb plan) is the parts catalog. I understand that they bought Robalo and all of that, but to not even have the old tech data ... that basically means I'll be inventing this as I go along.

As to what is wrong today -- nothing but some soft flexy spots in the deck. And based on the input I've gotten here I'm actually encouraged that I don't have to do something today. But. The worst one is developing some stress cracks in the surface gelcoat (spider'ish cracks) and at some point I think I'm going to have to address it.

On the warranty thing -- yes, I agree that it seems that they should -- but to be fair (?) I never did do any transfer paperwork (or even know that you'd have to --- hell, I was deployed and my wife did the paperwork and all of that). I really don't want to get into a fighting match w/ them about it. The lady from Robalo knows the year of the boat, she knows the problems, if she was going to cover it under warranty she'd tell me. She has been trying to be helpful re: finding non-skid mold. ("She" = the lady in Robalo customer service).

 

[QC]

Re: 2005 Robalo 230R with soft spots in deck

Agree, if they want to cover, the paperwork doesn't matter . . . Maybe a starting point is: "Sorry I didn't do the paperwork, but assuming I had would the deck be covered?" If the answer is yes, then the obvious follow-up is: "I am ready to do the paperwork now, can you get me new copies to fill out?"