2003 Evinrude 250 FICT - Stumped

[j_eizy]

Going to walk you through the events and symptoms to see if maybe any one has any ideas what is wrong. My buddy and I are at a loss.

We got a 1983 grady white with a 2003 evinrude 250 last year. The boat was bullet proof with zero issues except some times after running it then turning the engine off, the engine would not turn over. We had power but nothing would crank. We would wait a few minutes and jiggle the throttle, thinking it was neutral kill switch, and it would eventually start and run great. We lived with this for most of the season.

In June, I was running home from surfing and while cruising at 4300 rpm the engine shut off. There was no misfire or anything. The engine then would not start and same as before, if we waited and jiggled the throttle it would start, except this time the issue occurred while under power.

This is where it gets bad, the following we weekend we took the boat out in some rough waters and the engine shut off under power. No misfires or weird sounds, just shut off smoothly. We then had issues getting the boat in gear and it was running strange. Upon getting back to the dock we realized we had sheered the upper control arm bolts!!! WE GOT VERY LUCKY!

So for the last 3 months we have pulled the power head, replaced the upper control bolts, also replaced the lower crank shaft seal because we had a minor leak. We then re-installed to spec from the manual. We then also had to re-bend the shift rod because it had been bent from the angle of the outboard with out the upper control bolts. Upon further investigation we found the metal plate where the shift linkage is welded too had broke. So we welded that back on. After some adjustment of shifter linkage it was shifting.

Digging around on the forums we found these engines are known for issues with a relay that can cause the symptoms we are seeing. So we replaced all 4 relays to be safe.

And so finally after being out of the water for the majority of the fishing season we finally got her back in the water. She ran great and sounded amazing. However, we had the same issue. We would have to wait approximately 5-10 minutes and jiggle the shifter after turning the engine off to restart the engine.

After pulling the boat out we checked the neutral kill switch for power and it had voltage. Weirdly though, if we unplugged the neutral kill switch the engine would not turn over while in gear. I would think it should turn over if it is not plugged in?

What else should we look into? Computer issues? Should we get a computer reader?

Thanks

 

[saltchuckmatt]

Going to walk you through the events and symptoms to see if maybe any one has any ideas what is wrong. My buddy and I are at a loss.

We got a 1983 grady white with a 2003 evinrude 250 last year. The boat was bullet proof with zero issues except some times after running it then turning the engine off, the engine would not turn over. We had power but nothing would crank. We would wait a few minutes and jiggle the throttle, thinking it was neutral kill switch, and it would eventually start and run great. We lived with this for most of the season.

In June, I was running home from surfing and while cruising at 4300 rpm the engine shut off. There was no misfire or anything. The engine then would not start and same as before, if we waited and jiggled the throttle it would start, except this time the issue occurred while under power.

This is where it gets bad, the following we weekend we took the boat out in some rough waters and the engine shut off under power. No misfires or weird sounds, just shut off smoothly. We then had issues getting the boat in gear and it was running strange. Upon getting back to the dock we realized we had sheered the upper control arm bolts!!! WE GOT VERY LUCKY!

So for the last 3 months we have pulled the power head, replaced the upper control bolts, also replaced the lower crank shaft seal because we had a minor leak. We then re-installed to spec from the manual. We then also had to re-bend the shift rod because it had been bent from the angle of the outboard with out the upper control bolts. Upon further investigation we found the metal plate where the shift linkage is welded too had broke. So we welded that back on. After some adjustment of shifter linkage it was shifting.

Digging around on the forums we found these engines are known for issues with a relay that can cause the symptoms we are seeing. So we replaced all 4 relays to be safe.

And so finally after being out of the water for the majority of the fishing season we finally got her back in the water. She ran great and sounded amazing. However, we had the same issue. We would have to wait approximately 5-10 minutes and jiggle the shifter after turning the engine off to restart the engine. What else should we look into? Computer issues? Should we get a computer reader?

Thanks

So the starter won't crank correct? And if so you jiggle the handle and or wait awhile and then it will?

 

[j_eizy]

So the starter won't crank correct? And if so you jiggle the handle and or wait awhile and then it will?

correct, if we wait approx 5-10 minutes and do some throttle jiggling the engine will crank. When turning the key, the fuel pump turns on, the ignition beeps but no cranking.

 

[saltchuckmatt]

correct, if we wait approx 5-10 minutes and do some throttle jiggling the engine will crank. When turning the key, the fuel pump turns on, the ignition beeps but no cranking.

Ficht motors are tough. I wouldn't think the emm would shut down the starter but maybe. Others my might know.
I would have thought neutral locater too or short somewhere. Have you tried jumping the starter when that condition exist?

 

[saltchuckmatt]

correct, if we wait approx 5-10 minutes and do some throttle jiggling the engine will crank. When turning the key, the fuel pump turns on, the ignition beeps but no cranking.

I'm wondering key switch ground wire issue.

 

[saltchuckmatt]

Going to walk you through the events and symptoms to see if maybe any one has any ideas what is wrong. My buddy and I are at a loss.

We got a 1983 grady white with a 2003 evinrude 250 last year. The boat was bullet proof with zero issues except some times after running it then turning the engine off, the engine would not turn over. We had power but nothing would crank. We would wait a few minutes and jiggle the throttle, thinking it was neutral kill switch, and it would eventually start and run great. We lived with this for most of the season.

In June, I was running home from surfing and while cruising at 4300 rpm the engine shut off. There was no misfire or anything. The engine then would not start and same as before, if we waited and jiggled the throttle it would start, except this time the issue occurred while under power.

This is where it gets bad, the following we weekend we took the boat out in some rough waters and the engine shut off under power. No misfires or weird sounds, just shut off smoothly. We then had issues getting the boat in gear and it was running strange. Upon getting back to the dock we realized we had sheered the upper control arm bolts!!! WE GOT VERY LUCKY!

So for the last 3 months we have pulled the power head, replaced the upper control bolts, also replaced the lower crank shaft seal because we had a minor leak. We then re-installed to spec from the manual. We then also had to re-bend the shift rod because it had been bent from the angle of the outboard with out the upper control bolts. Upon further investigation we found the metal plate where the shift linkage is welded too had broke. So we welded that back on. After some adjustment of shifter linkage it was shifting.

Digging around on the forums we found these engines are known for issues with a relay that can cause the symptoms we are seeing. So we replaced all 4 relays to be safe.

And so finally after being out of the water for the majority of the fishing season we finally got her back in the water. She ran great and sounded amazing. However, we had the same issue. We would have to wait approximately 5-10 minutes and jiggle the shifter after turning the engine off to restart the engine.

After pulling the boat out we checked the neutral kill switch for power and it had voltage. Weirdly though, if we unplugged the neutral kill switch the engine would not turn over while in gear. I would think it should turn over if it is not plugged in?

What else should we look into? Computer issues? Should we get a computer reader?

Thanks

This read is interesting. Might be your problem.

https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/996809-evinrude-ficht-intermittent-no-start-solved.html

 

[saltchuckmatt]

Going to walk you through the events and symptoms to see if maybe any one has any ideas what is wrong. My buddy and I are at a loss.

We got a 1983 grady white with a 2003 evinrude 250 last year. The boat was bullet proof with zero issues except some times after running it then turning the engine off, the engine would not turn over. We had power but nothing would crank. We would wait a few minutes and jiggle the throttle, thinking it was neutral kill switch, and it would eventually start and run great. We lived with this for most of the season.

In June, I was running home from surfing and while cruising at 4300 rpm the engine shut off. There was no misfire or anything. The engine then would not start and same as before, if we waited and jiggled the throttle it would start, except this time the issue occurred while under power.

This is where it gets bad, the following we weekend we took the boat out in some rough waters and the engine shut off under power. No misfires or weird sounds, just shut off smoothly. We then had issues getting the boat in gear and it was running strange. Upon getting back to the dock we realized we had sheered the upper control arm bolts!!! WE GOT VERY LUCKY!

So for the last 3 months we have pulled the power head, replaced the upper control bolts, also replaced the lower crank shaft seal because we had a minor leak. We then re-installed to spec from the manual. We then also had to re-bend the shift rod because it had been bent from the angle of the outboard with out the upper control bolts. Upon further investigation we found the metal plate where the shift linkage is welded too had broke. So we welded that back on. After some adjustment of shifter linkage it was shifting.

Digging around on the forums we found these engines are known for issues with a relay that can cause the symptoms we are seeing. So we replaced all 4 relays to be safe.

And so finally after being out of the water for the majority of the fishing season we finally got her back in the water. She ran great and sounded amazing. However, we had the same issue. We would have to wait approximately 5-10 minutes and jiggle the shifter after turning the engine off to restart the engine.

After pulling the boat out we checked the neutral kill switch for power and it had voltage. Weirdly though, if we unplugged the neutral kill switch the engine would not turn over while in gear. I would think it should turn over if it is not plugged in?

What else should we look into? Computer issues? Should we get a computer reader?

Thanks

I apologize, I missed that you had replaced all of the relays. I would guess that the neutral locater needs to be closed in order to make the starter engage...by pulling the wire you opened it. I keep thinking about that ground (kill wire) but electrical gremlins are tough. I hope someone has a solution.

 

[Faztbullet]

Send PDP panel to have repaired

 

[saltchuckmatt]

Kill lanyard switch....another potential.

 

[j_eizy]

Send PDP panel to have repaired

how do you know if it is bad and who would we send it too

 

[j_eizy]

Send PDP panel to have repaired

how do you know if PDP is bad and who do you send it too?

 

[saltchuckmatt]

how do you know if PDP is bad and who do you send it too?

Here is a post in 2013 with a similar issue, a way to test (should be able to make sure pathways are connected) and then they list a place that repairs them.

Have you ever plugged in a different control box just to see if that solves it?

Anyhow, enjoy the read.

Power Distribution Panel Questions

Model E225FCXSRB Serial 05064993 Ive been having a starting issue lately. Turns over but sometimes will not start. Then yesterday my trim motor quit on me. I've traced it to the PDP. Relays are all good/fuses all good. I even switched PDP's between engines and same problem happens with other...

forums.iboats.com

 

[Faztbullet]

Send it here.....

DFI > Products & Services

DFI

www.dfitechnologies.com

 

[Crosbyman]

the PDP panels have a known history of cold solder connections causing intermittent loss of power . basically the lower B+ entry point to the PDP needs a close look at.

that b+ directly feeds T&T so an intermittent T&T is probablya give away that the B+ into the PDP is cold soldered...causing all sorts of issues elsewhere ....

nothing overly complex it seems ...to resolder the connection properly yourself if handy with this stuff.

do NET searches... see link posted above

when proplems arise try a sharp tap on the PDP to see if you get a reaction .. if yes suspect a cold solder

btw check your PM's

EMM likely ok but having EV diagnostics and cable is always handy servicing these engines.
i'll sen you a text about EV diag. available from dealers or amazon ...

 

[Crosbyman]

see pm s

 

[j_eizy]

the PDP panels have a known history of cold solder connections causing intermittent loss of power . basically the lower B+ entry point to the PDP needs a close look at.

that b+ directly feeds T&T so an intermittent T&T is probablya give away that the B+ into the PDP is cold soldered...causing all sorts of issues elsewhere ....

nothing overly complex it seems ...to resolder the connection properly yourself if handy with this stuff.

do NET searches... see link posted above

when proplems arise try a sharp tap on the PDP to see if you get a reaction .. if yes suspect a cold solder

btw check your PM's

EMM likely ok but having EV diagnostics and cable is always handy servicing these engines.
i'll sen you a text about EV diag. available from dealers or amazon ...

Ok thank you. We have a diagnostic kit arriving today so going to try that before tearing anything else apart.

 

[Crosbyman]

EV diag is great for looking up fault codes but I suspect this is more a basic power dist issue.

keep us posted !

 

[j_eizy]

Update: We got the diagnostic kit and the computer was showing no recent faults. We looked at our historic faults and they all matched with the issues we had before. The first being engine temp from some kelp stuck in the intake and the other being low voltage one time.

So we decided to take the boat out and run it until power cut out and then plug in the diagnostic kit. Once the boat lost power after about ~45 minutes of cruising at 4500 RPM we plugged the diagnostic kit into the outboard while on the water and could not connect. So we now know the EMM is not getting power during the issue. It would consistently run for 30-60 minutes then shut off. We would have to let it cool down for 20-45 minutes then it would start up fine. We could turn the key and get the oil beep and hear the fuel pump turn on but the engine will not turn over.

So now following the above advice, we started to dive into our PDP. We bolted our ground to the engine block. We then checked power coming into the PDP ("N" wire) and we had 12.65 volts. We then checked on right prong of the stop & ign relay (top left relay on the panel) and had 12.65 volts at the prong. We then check the power flowing out of the stop & ign relay at "J" and "E" wire and we had 11.58 volts! The metal outgoing prong at the relay also shows the 11.58 volts. We then continued down the wires of where power leaves the PDP and most of them had 11.58 volts. So we believe the relays are bad based on this.

The weird thing is we replaced these relays a few months back with to spec part number from boats.net. (BRB 56224 - see attached pictures). In the manual it says we need 40 amp relays. However, when digging around online based on that part number. I get mixed results of 30 amp and 40 amp relays showing up. The replacement relays we installed does not say the amp. Can some one point me to the correct 40 amp relay and confirm that we possibly have 30 amp relays installed? And confirm the voltage drop of outgoing power from the PDP makes sense that we under amp relays? Or does this sound more like we may have a bad solder in the PDP? We forgot to try and tap the PDP when it died, next time we will try that.

 

[Crosbyman]

bigger capaicty relay if it fitsand meets specs isalways a better option

next time just try the T&T when theengine is dead ... it should work on its own regardeless of EMM status.

if it is dead concentrate your search on the power input area of the PDP panel C&D mare certain all connections are solid ... bat and grd

 

[j_eizy]

bigger capaicty relay if it fitsand meets specs isalways a better option

next time just try the T&T when theengine is dead ... it should work on its own regardeless of EMM status.

if it is dead concentrate your search on the power input area of the PDP panel C&D mare certain all connections are solid ... bat and grd

When you say try T&T do you mean just check if the engine will trim up and down? Because the engine trim and tilt works fine when the boat will not start.

Or do you mean check the two relays that control the trim and tilt? Everything if fully functional on the engine once it dies except for any cranking. We even tried jumping the starter solenoid when it was dead and it would not start. Cranked it for 5-7 seconds.