2002 Yamaha 200 HPDI. Appreciate any help

Brett41

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I have a 2002 Yamaha 200 HPDI (VZ200TLRA) and I’m having problems with fouling plugs and rough idle while idling. Once I can get it on plane it runs good. I have had it to two different dealers but they couldn’t figure it out so I started doing my own research and ran pressure test on the VST. When you turn the key on the VST will pressure up to 53 lbs. but once the fuel pump stops it will only take 7 second for the pressure to go down to 18lbs. I have searched repair manual for pressure specs but unsuccessful. 18lbs. just seems too low in my opinion.

Not sure where to go from here! I contacted Yamaha and they told me it would be in the Injectors or it could be the CDI keeping the injectors open. Not sure about that either. I could really use someone’s insight for this issue. I would appreciate any info!
 

QBhoy

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I must admit, I don’t know much about the Yamaha vst di system, but a couple of assumptions or questions perhaps, from what little I do know about basic Di systems of other makes and perhaps a little from here and there.
As far as I know there is usually a fuel pressure regulator that is worth checking for function.
I’d also try and prove if one or more injector is leaking or sticking open, although this being the case, you’d imagine that the fuel pressure would drop to below 18 psi or to zero even. (More on that in a minute)
To check the injectors you may be able to simply take the plugs out and look for signs of fuel being thrown in there when the pressure drops after key on, when it shouldn’t obviously. You could also check if they are getting a signal to open when they shouldn’t. Usually this is a check for about 5v to them with a meter.
Back to the fuel pressure….if the fuel in the vst is going somewhere from the chamber…there is usually a float that will drop with the level and eventually tell the pump to pressure up again. Someone more knowledgeable than I will no doubt be along with the info, but I’d imagine this should be the case.
I’m also aware that higher ethanol content in fuel these days has been known to have an effect on the grommets and any other easily perishable items within the vst or anywhere else in the fuel system. Grommets within the vst on the mercs have been known to do just this for certain.
There will also be an air sensor or o2 sensor it may be called. This has an influence on the fuelling and running state of the engine. Worth a check too.
Possibly also off on a tangent, but I’m aware that it is sometimes quite crucial to have the plugs gap set properly, on engines like this. Their whole operation and design purpose is to run very efficiently and frugally as they can. Things like plug gap are likely considered crucial and may even be stated as much in the manual.
Are you taking the fuel pressure reading from a fuel rail ? Perhaps this particular vst system is able to bleed off pressure from it, when not required? It may not be such a worry, if so. Early merc vst weren’t sealed system and did just this. Newer don’t I’m aware.
How’s the oil feed for function ? Any signs of over fuelling in the water from the exhaust?
Anyway. Bored you enough for know when assumptions and guesses. Hope it might help a little
 
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Brett41

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Qbhoy, I would think that if some injectors was open that I would notice it in the plugs but I could be wrong. I did open the VST and it was very clean. I take great measures to not run ethanol in the boat.I am actually taking the pressure ready straight form the VST. I will check the O2 sensor again and check the fuel pressure regulator, I didn't think about that! I really appreciate you taking the time to help!! Thank you
 

boscoe99

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It is normal for fuel pressure from the VST to decline once the pump has stopped running. Which the pump will do if the motor is not started.

What is the medium pump pressure when the motor is running at idle? Should be approximately 45 psi or so.

All the medium pressure does is to supply gasoline to the high pressure pump. Pressure from that pump is nominally 700 psi. Usually takes YDIS and a laptop to monitor high pressure pump output.

There is no CDI in that model. It uses an ECU. Engine Control Unit. Transistorized ignition instead of capacitor discharge ignition.

When was the last time a link and sync was performed?
 

QBhoy

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Qbhoy, I would think that if some injectors was open that I would notice it in the plugs but I could be wrong. I did open the VST and it was very clean. I take great measures to not run ethanol in the boat.I am actually taking the pressure ready straight form the VST. I will check the O2 sensor again and check the fuel pressure regulator, I didn't think about that! I really appreciate you taking the time to help!! Thank you
No problem.
Yeah…I don’t think it’s an injector issue at all. I’d likely be looking more towards the O2 sensor, temperature sensor or thermostat/running temperature (that may cause her to run rich, thinking she cold) tps, oil supply rate, plug gap etc.
 

Brett41

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It is normal for fuel pressure from the VST to decline once the pump has stopped running. Which the pump will do if the motor is not started.

What is the medium pump pressure when the motor is running at idle? Should be approximately 45 psi or so.

All the medium pressure does is to supply gasoline to the high pressure pump. Pressure from that pump is nominally 700 psi. Usually takes YDIS and a laptop to monitor high pressure pump output.

There is no CDI in that model. It uses an ECU. Engine Control Unit. Transistorized ignition instead of capacitor discharge ignition.

When was the last time a link and sync was performed?
boscoe99: I'm not sure what the pressure is while at idle but I will check over the weekend. I understand that VST will loose some pressure but didn't think i should loose that much. Hydro tech marine did a link & sync about a year ago.... This thing just acts like it's not getting enough fuel at idle but when you throttle up and kick in the high pressure then it runs like an old champ! Thank you for your input!!
 

99yam40

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HPDI motors drop 2 cylinders when in neutral, and will drop more if RPM is raised while in neutral.
Make sure the ECU see the switching into and out of gear properly.
should be easy with the laptop and software.

But I would think the different shops have checked everything with the laptop.
IF the rail pressure stays in spec, You could pull and send off the injectors to have them tested and cleaned.

I am not sure what you mean by " throttle up and kick in the high pressure",
I thought those motors ran high pressure all of the time on the rail.
 

QBhoy

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HPDI motors drop 2 cylinders when in neutral, and will drop more if RPM is raised while in neutral.
Make sure the ECU see the switching into and out of gear properly.
should be easy with the laptop and software.

But I would think the different shops have checked everything with the laptop.
IF the rail pressure stays in spec, You could pull and send off the injectors to have them tested and cleaned.

I am not sure what you mean by " throttle up and kick in the high pressure",
I thought those motors ran high pressure all of the time on the rail.
I had it in mind that they may only have had one fuel pump in the vst. Think you’re right. As in there isn’t a low and high pressure pump. Just a float and a pump in there. Might be wrong.
 

boscoe99

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There are two low pressure pumps, one medium pressure pump and one high pressure pump. In the OP's VZ200.

Some other VZ200's have two high pressure pumps. So remember that what applies to one motor does not apply to all motors.
 

boscoe99

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HPDI motors drop 2 cylinders when in neutral, and will drop more if RPM is raised while in neutral.
Make sure the ECU see the switching into and out of gear properly.
should be easy with the laptop and software.

But I would think the different shops have checked everything with the laptop.
IF the rail pressure stays in spec, You could pull and send off the injectors to have them tested and cleaned.

I am not sure what you mean by " throttle up and kick in the high pressure",
I thought those motors ran high pressure all of the time on the rail.
They do.
 

QBhoy

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There are two low pressure pumps, one medium pressure pump and one high pressure pump. In the OP's VZ200.

Some other VZ200's have two high pressure pumps. So remember that what applies to one motor does not apply to all motors.
Great info. Knew someone with the knowledge, would be along soon enough 👌
 

Brett41

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I had it in mind that they may only have had one fuel pump in the vst. Think you’re right. As in there isn’t a low and high pressure pump. Just a float and a pump in there. Might be wrong.
10-4... Thank you QBhoy!!!
 

Brett41

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Mar 15, 2023
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HPDI motors drop 2 cylinders when in neutral, and will drop more if RPM is raised while in neutral.
Make sure the ECU see the switching into and out of gear properly.
should be easy with the laptop and software.

But I would think the different shops have checked everything with the laptop.
IF the rail pressure stays in spec, You could pull and send off the injectors to have them tested and cleaned.

I am not sure what you mean by " throttle up and kick in the high pressure",
I thought those motors ran high pressure all of the time on the rail.
99yam40: Sounds like I might need to have the injectors cleaned, like you said. Thank you for your time & input!
 

Brett41

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Joined
Mar 15, 2023
Messages
6
It is normal for fuel pressure from the VST to decline once the pump has stopped running. Which the pump will do if the motor is not started.

What is the medium pump pressure when the motor is running at idle? Should be approximately 45 psi or so.

All the medium pressure does is to supply gasoline to the high pressure pump. Pressure from that pump is nominally 700 psi. Usually takes YDIS and a laptop to monitor high pressure pump output.

There is no CDI in that model. It uses an ECU. Engine Control Unit. Transistorized ignition instead of capacitor discharge ignition.

When was the last time a link and sync was performed?
Boscoe99: The Link & Sync was performed by Hydro Tech, last year... The idle is rough, just doesn't sound like the old girl I use to know.. When i give it gas, it cuts out a little but seems like once it burns off the plugs she gets up and moves good. I had a tournament over the weekend in 27° weather and she seemed to idle higher than she has been and ran out pretty good. I believe one the weather warms up the issue will once again raise it's ugly head again. Thank you for your time and input! by the way, I did replace the two low pressure pumps that is behind the VST. I also replaced the filter and o-rings in the VST and didn't make any difference. Any idea what the pressure should be in the VST when you turn the key on and the pump builds up pressure and what the pressure should be after the pump kicks off??
 
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