2.00 ratio Alpha one gen 2

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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May 19, 2004
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I'm messed up in the head still....
So I have a 2.00r 24/24 upper and any gearcase will go on that?
If you have a 24:24 upper, then with a 14:28 lower you'll get a 2:1 overall. If you put your 24:24 upper on a 13:21 lower you'll have a 1.62:1 overall...
.. (Btw, if you refer these engines as "iron dukes" or the drives as "pre-alphas", you're going to get somebody's panties in a bunch. Not naming names...)
Now who would that be???
 

Mercperk

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Okay sincerely appreciate your time and consideration folks I have the knowledge!

(Btw, if you refer these engines as "iron dukes" or the drives as "pre-alphas", you're going to get somebody's panties in a bunch. Not naming names...)---lmao!!!
 

Mercperk

Seaman
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Okay sincerely appreciate your time and consideration folks I have the knowledge!

(Btw, if you refer these engines as "iron dukes" or the drives as "pre-alphas", you're going to get somebody's panties in a bunch. Not naming names...)---lmao!!!
Generally speaking I speak truth. How are they not "pre-alphas?" And saying iron dukes is like saying white fish isn't it? Wide field of application.... I don't know seems like guys called lots of stuff that but this engine is probably the best known. Iron dukes were ubiquitous and durable right?
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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Generally speaking I speak truth. How are they not "pre-alphas?"
They are. It's just that calling them that isn't very useful. There were no less than 16 different drives before the Alpha One. Saying you have a 'pre-Alpha' doesn't help anyone.
 

Mercperk

Seaman
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They are. It's just that calling them that isn't very useful. There were no less than 16 different drives before the Alpha One. Saying you have a 'pre-Alpha' doesn't help anyone.
Well that is the problem they don't help anyone and upgrading/modifying is the the only option. So really they are of only one model, limited life. If you gotta ask which "pre-alpha" you already have a problem....
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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'Pre' in this case just means 'before'. You say you have a drive that is before Alpha One, I'll ask 'so which one?' (remember, there were no less than 16 DIFFERENT drives before the Alpha One)

Chris...
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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But we digress. You need to know the EXACT ratio of your counter-rotate drive (port side) and the starboard drive must match that ratio EXACTLY, or you're going to have some wicked drive-ability and handling problems with that setup...

If you have serial number for the drives that would be helpful and a good place to start. The other place would be to pull the top cover and count teeth. If you have 24:24, then it's more than likely you have a 2:1 drive... (If that drive was matched to a 3L engine from factory.)

Chris....
 

Mercperk

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'Pre' in this case just means 'before'. You say you have a drive that is before Alpha One, I'll ask 'so which one?' (remember, there were no less than 16 DIFFERENT drives before the Alpha One)

Chris...
ALL I have been asked to look at in the field has been a combination of pre-alphas made from mismatched drive parts, gimble ring to gimble housing and numerous other combinations and modifications. In fact I have NEVER seen an unmodified pre-alpha and it would be hard to call them their true name because they truly are not what they were when they started their life. (Useful mainly) and almost one hundred percent wanting to be replaced...
So this is why I'll always refer to them as pre-alphas. The only reason they are even around is because they aren't used in any meaningful way. Most are mostly obsolete and the mint ones are owned by those who can afford not to use them.
I hope they are gone within my lifetime
 

Mercperk

Seaman
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But we digress. You need to know the EXACT ratio of your counter-rotate drive (port side) and the starboard drive must match that ratio EXACTLY, or you're going to have some wicked drive-ability and handling problems with that setup...

If you have serial number for the drives that would be helpful and a good place to start. The other place would be to pull the top cover and count teeth. If you have 24:24, then it's more than likely you have a 2:1 drive... (If that drive was matched to a 3L engine from factory.)
ALL I have been asked to look at in the field has been a combination of pre-alphas made from mismatched drive parts, gimble ring to gimble housing and numerous other combinations and modifications. In fact I have NEVER seen an unmodified pre-alpha and it would be hard to call them their true name because they truly are not what they were when they started their life. (Useful mainly) and almost one hundred percent wanting to be replaced...
So this is why I'll always refer to them as pre-alphas. The only reason they are even around is because they aren't used in any meaningful way. Most are mostly obsolete and the mint ones are owned by those who can afford not to use them.
I hope they are gone within my lifetime
But we digress. You need to know the EXACT ratio of your counter-rotate drive (port side) and the starboard drive must match that ratio EXACTLY, or you're going to have some wicked drive-ability and handling problems with that setup...

If you have serial number for the drives that would be helpful and a good place to start. The other place would be to pull the top cover and count teeth. If you have 24:24, then it's more than likely you have a 2:1 drive... (If that drive was matched to a 3L engine from factory.)

Chris....
Alpha one Gen 2 2.00
 

nola mike

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5,364
In fact I have NEVER seen an unmodified pre-alpha and it would be hard to call them their true name because they truly are not what they were when they started their life. (Useful mainly) and almost one hundred percent wanting to be replaced...
So this is why I'll always refer to them as pre-alphas. The only reason they are even around is because they aren't used in any meaningful way. Most are mostly obsolete and the mint ones are owned by those who can afford not to use them.
I hope they are gone within my lifetime
How much boating experience do you have? There are *plenty* of unmodified "pre alphas" out there. Granted, most of them are MC-1s, but really no need to be ambiguous on purpose.
And saying iron dukes is like saying white fish isn't it? Wide field of application.... I don't know seems like guys called lots of stuff that but this engine is probably the best known. Iron dukes were ubiquitous and durable right?
Iron dukes were ubiquitous and durable. They were also never used in a marine application and aren't the same as your 3.0..
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
Joined
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ALL I have been asked to look at in the field has been a combination of pre-alphas made from mismatched drive parts, gimble ring to gimble housing and numerous other combinations and modifications. In fact I have NEVER seen an unmodified pre-alpha and it would be hard to call them their true name because they truly are not what they were when they started their life. (Useful mainly) and almost one hundred percent wanting to be replaced...
So this is why I'll always refer to them as pre-alphas. The only reason they are even around is because they aren't used in any meaningful way. Most are mostly obsolete and the mint ones are owned by those who can afford not to use them.
The only 'mismatching' is of major sub-assemblies, and Merc made a lot of sub-assemblies backwards compatible on purpose. If you have an old MC-1 drive that has a destroyed gear housing, you can put a new gear housing on that is from any one of R, MR or Alpha One. Same the other way, and the same between the later MC1 transom assemblies and the R, MR and Alpha One.
Swapping them around is very common, and very acceptable. If you are buying, then you just need to be a little savvy about knowing what you're looking at, and how to determine gear ratios. And it's why Mercruiser is usually the choice of people trying to built 'cheap boats'... šŸ¤¦
Merc made a move away from the whole family of the first 'Alpha' series (MC1, R, MR and Alpha One) in 1991 with the Alpha One Gen II. No interchangeability of any parts between the previous and the Gen II... And people got upset. When they found a local reef and wiped out the gear housing, they could ONLY put a Gen II gear housing on, and they were expensive! I have seen one attempt at putting a complete Alpha One drive on a Gen II bell housing. It was on, but it was messy, very messy. A lot of chopped up components!
I hope they are gone within my lifetime
Unlikely, as people just keep repairing them (playing 'mix and match' if you like). Why spend the best part of $6,000 for a new transom assembly and drive when a new gear housing can be obtained for less than $900?

I'd also like to see the old points and carbs gone, but I'm aware that it's not going to happen either, because people like them (it's beyond me why. They say because of 'reliability' or 'ease of repair', but from my experience, both as an owner of old carbs and point and of MPI, and that of maintainer/repairer, the new MPIs are far more reliable than carbs and points, and thus don't need to be constantly 'fixed'), Looking at you @Scott Danforth ;)
 
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salvageyard saviour

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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164
"Iron dukes were ubiquitous and durable. They were also never used in a marine application and aren't the same as your 3.0.."

And our 3.0 were never in an automotive application.

The Iron Duke is a 2.5 L / 151CI 90hp . Intake and exaust on opposite sides of head.
Our 2.5 L is 153CI 120hp. Intake and exaust same side and the closest auto use was only the 1963 Chevy ll. Pre Nova. ("Pre " pun on purpose šŸ˜‰)

Had to kick a dead horse and stray from topic, sorry.
 
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Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
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I'd also like to see the old points and carbs gone, but I'm aware that it's not going to happen either, because people like them (it's beyond me why. They say because of 'reliability' or 'ease of repair', but from my experience, both as an o Looking at you @Scott Danforth ;)

Ppphhhlllbbnttttt

Okay sincerely appreciate your time and consideration folks I have the knowledge!

(Btw, if you refer these engines as "iron dukes" or the drives as "pre-alphas", you're going to get somebody's panties in a bunch. Not naming names...)---lmao!!!
Iron dukes are 2.5 liter / 151 cubic inch pontiac 4 cylinders ( half a 301 V8)

120hp / 2.5liter (153 cubic inch) motors are chevrolet 4-cylinders part of the inline 6 cylinder family. Not related at all to the iron duke other than similar displacements

The 3.0 is a spin-off of the 153 used in industrial applications only
 
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