1st I/O Winterizing - ??? on filling w/antifreeze

[John_S]

I will be pulling my boat out, this Labor Day weekend. Yes, short season, but its a leap year, and they draw down early for dock repair, and I might not be able to get back up there the rest of Sept. This will be my first winterization of an I/O ('97 5.7L w/alpha I gen2, seawater cooling, clear freshwater lake) and have been reading numerous posts, Seloc manual, websites, catalogs, and Merc manuals. The boat will be in storage for 8, maybe 9 months. <br /><br />I definitly want to go with low/non toxic antifreeze in the system, to help prevent the build-up of rust. I have read about the gravity feed systems, but I will not be able to do this with warm engine and do not have a way to heat the anti-freeze up. <br /><br />My plan is to drain system, per Merc service manual. Remove the seawater inlet hose from the back fitting (haven't looked at this yet, so don't know if I have easy access), and have the hose lifted above the height of the risors. Then close all valves and reinstall all hoses, except inlet hose held above risors. Pull the thermostat housing and thermostat, and fill block with antifreeze, per merc manual. Reinstall thermostat and housing. <br /><br />Antifreeze should now be to the level of thermostat, but would like to make sure it is up to the top of the risors. My thought is that I can gravity feed the inlet hose, with ocasionaly turning the engine over (plugs out and fogged). When the level in the hose is at the height of the risors, and doesn't go down any more, plug it. <br /><br />Will this accomplish what I want? Is there a better method given my constraints? If I keep it at this level, is there any danger of it going back down the exhaust, and into the head? Any thoughts on this are appreciated.<br /><br />PS: I will also make sure some antifreeze is down the outdrive just in case there are some leftover water, that it can mix with.<br /><br />Edit: New brain fart - Remove the inlet hose at the thermostat housing, and install a temp hose, to feed engine, and hold above risors. Easier access, and can feed antifreeze easier down to outdrive.

 

[Chris1956]

Re: 1st I/O Winterizing - ??? on filling w/antifreeze

John, If you have a V8 with freshwater cooling, then you should already have antifreeze circulating in the block and perhaps the manifolds. I would check its freeze/boiling scharacteristics with a hygrometer. If it is good, you can add some automotive "antirust" additive to plus it up.<br /><br />If this is the case, then drain the raw water part of the heat exchanger by removing the hoses or open the drain plug. Dump antifreeze into the raw parts of the motor until it pushes out the remaining water. These pieces are Risers, raw water pump (should be through hull pickup, and engine mounter pump), power steering cooler and outdrive impeller, if you have one.

 

[John_S]

Re: 1st I/O Winterizing - ??? on filling w/antifreeze

Chris,<br /><br />No, I have the seawater cooling. Sorry, for the confusion. It is in a clear fresh water lake. I'll correct the post above. <br /><br />Is there an antirust additive, that is non-toxic?

 

[rodbolt]

Re: 1st I/O Winterizing - ??? on filling w/antifreeze

why can you not run the engine? it really needs to be. ?

 

[tommays]

Re: 1st I/O Winterizing - ??? on filling w/antifreeze

someone correat me if i am worng but if all the correct drain plugs are removed from the block and exaust manifolds and you poke around each hole to make sure its not blocked with rust than there should not be any water left in the motor to freeze<br /><br />personaly i hook a bucket up to my muffs fill it with non tox and run the motor long enough to flush it through the pump mabey 20 seconds<br /><br />you should change the motor oil and drive oil <br /><br />treat the gas with a stablizer<br /><br />fog out the motor like the manual says<br /><br />tommays

 

[Chris1956]

Re: 1st I/O Winterizing - ??? on filling w/antifreeze

John, I am very familar with raw water cooling. I have a 4.3LX I winterize every year. I also drain and capture the antifreeze in the spring, and reuse it next winter. I find that about 1 gallon of the antifreeze is consumed each year, mostly chasing the water out of the outdrive. BTW winterizing the block is the last thing you should do that requires the motor to run.<br /><br />To winterize the block, pull the two drain plugs on the block, and the one drain on the back of each exhaust manifold. Stick a screwdriver into the drain holes to make sure they are clean. Pull off the six water hoses on the thermostat cover. Now dump full strength, antifreeze (which contains an anti rust agent not RV stuff) into each hose until it emerges from the drain associated. It will push out the balance of the water. Pouring the antifreeze into the raw water hose will push water out of the powersteering cooler and the outdrives impeller. When the green stuff comes out of both block drains and both manifolds, install the plugs and fill up the manifold, riser and block hoses. Antifreeze will emerge from the propeller housing when you pour the antifreeze into the riser hoses. Yourblock is now ready for winter. In the spring, I put a basin under the bilge plug opening and dump the antifreeze into the bilge and catch it as it drains out of the boat!

 

[John_S]

Re: 1st I/O Winterizing - ??? on filling w/antifreeze

The boat ramp is quite aways from our camp, road wise. Don't think it would be appreciated to be spilling antifreeze, at the ramp. As it is, I'll being doing the oil and filter change there, while still warm. I am concerned that the engine block would not get a good charge of antifreeze, via the gravity feed system without the thermostat opening fully.<br /><br />I have the four hose thermostat housing, which I beleive does not have the one way valves. I thought I could feed all hoses via the inlet hose, but could do each hose seperatly. The exhaust manifold drain is off of the water feed line. The risors are higher than thermostat housing, so that is why I felt had to raise hose higher/turn over engine. Never having the manifold/risors off not sure if it can come back down the exhaust and into the port.<br /><br />Thanks for the input so far.

 

[imported_wildcat]

Re: 1st I/O Winterizing - ??? on filling w/antifreeze

I am also a newbie and am very worried about not getting the system totally drained and all points full of antifreeze. Why not run the boat on a flush kit connected to a bucket of antifreeze and then open and leave the drain plugs out for winter. This seems to be the only way to get the system totally drained of water.

 

[Elk Chaser]

Re: 1st I/O Winterizing - ??? on filling w/antifreeze

Find a bucket tall enough to cover the water intake on the outdive when it is lowered. (I use a 30 gallon plastic drum) <br /><br />Get the ear muffs and run the engine at home on the garden hose until it is at normal operating temperature (about 5 to 10 minutes of run time). <br /><br />Immediately repostion and lower the drive unit into 1 of the buckets. Fill the bucket with a 50/50 mixture of antifreeze (keep the 2nd buket ready with the 50/50 mixture to pour into the bucket) and then run the engine at idle only, pour the additional antifreeze into the bucket as the solution gets used up trying to maintain the 50/50 mixture as much as possible. <br /><br />As long as the engine was at operating temperature you should only need to run the engine for a couple minutes or less and all passages and exchangers should be completely filled with antifreeze.<br /><br />In the spring I pull the drain plugs and clean them out as mentioned above and capture the solution to use again later.

 

[wvit100]

Re: 1st I/O Winterizing - ??? on filling w/antifreeze

Don't use the green stuff that is made for cars. This stuff is toxic to animals and fish and is not good to be flushing into the lake. We should all work to protect the environment of the lakes. The pink stuff works just as well for putting in a boat motor over the winter.

 

[imported_wildcat]

Re: 1st I/O Winterizing - ??? on filling w/antifreeze

The 30 gallon bucket is interesting. How many gallons of antifreeze does this technique require.<br /><br />I own a waverunner and it gets winterized by using a miracle grow sprayer. Put antifreeze in the container and connect it to the garden hose. As the water passes over the sprayer, it mixes with antifreeze. I don't know how good a mix it provides, but my waverunner never has a cracked block. <br /><br />I don't know if this would work with the boat. I was actually thinking of using this technique with the flush kit and then draining the block. Any remaining water would be mixed with antifreeze. <br /><br />The local marina in North Georgia told me that they just drain the block and leave the blue plugs out. They don't use antifreeze. It is not necessary and is toxic.

 

[butlp]

Re: 1st I/O Winterizing - ??? on filling w/antifreeze

I too am a new I/O owner and worry if I have fully winterized my motor. From what I have read from many sources there seems to be two school of thought:<br />1. Fully drain but leave the motor empty<br />2. Fully drain and refill with auto antifreeze and recover and flush before putting back in the lake.<br /><br />I have read not to use "plumbers antifreeze" or RV antifreeze as it can damage rubber seals and does not have corrosion inhibitors. It is also pre-mixed and if there is any water left in the motor it could be diluted to the point where it may not fully protect against freezing.<br /><br />I decided to fully drain my motor and then refill with auto antifreeze through the thermostat housing making sure I filled the sea water pump/oil cooler and exhaust manifolds. <br /><br />This is a good website that details the winterizing process: http://www.brownsmarina.com/tech-winter-inboard.html <br /> http://www.brownsmarina.com/tech-af.html <br /><br />I guess only time will tell if I did a good enough job!

 

[imported_wildcat]

Re: 1st I/O Winterizing - ??? on filling w/antifreeze

Brown's Marina writeup provides the most detailed procedures I have seen. Thanks for the information. Now I just need to locate everything that is mentioned.

 

[John_S]

Re: 1st I/O Winterizing - ??? on filling w/antifreeze

Elk Chaser,<br />I do not have a garden hose connection at our camp. This will be added in the Spring, with some other plumbing work. I considered just using a trashcan, with straight antifreeze, and just let it recycle in the engine, until the temp gauge started up slightly from normal. I rejected this for the amount of antifreeze and leftover, and storing it. <br /><br />Lost Canadian,<br />Thanks for the links. I now have the answer I was looking for: "Continue to fill the manifold with anti-freeze until it comes out the prop. Repeat this procedure for each manifold." While they are discussing the six hose system, this was the key I was looking for. The outdrive will be in a pail, to catch any that drains out. <br /><br />While I am not 100% sure on the thermostat quote in the article, I will try that method of filling block from water pump hose and then check by removing the thermostat. Just want to make sure there is no air pocket. <br /><br />wvit100, <br />I plan on using Propylene Glycol, which is less toxic, and plan to recover as much as possible. <br /><br /><br />My plan is to use 100% PG, with no mixing of water. It is my understanding that mixing the water is only for the waters heat transfer capabilities, which is not needed for storage. I don't have an issue with overkill on the rust prevenative. Does anyone know of a low-tox additive for this?

 

[tommays]

Re: 1st I/O Winterizing - ??? on filling w/antifreeze

i think your going way overboard if you drain the block and manifords and then fill them with some no-tox RV antifreez and if you realy worried pour some down the raw water feed hose from the drive to protect the drive what due you guys think is going to happen<br /><br />your spilling enough antifreeze to kill hafe the animals in your area and your not protecting your motor any better it runs in raw water all season and all the antifreeze in the world is not going to undue that<br /><br />tommays

 

[tryan]

Re: 1st I/O Winterizing - ??? on filling w/antifreeze

john, antifreeze reaches it's maximum frezze protection at about 66% concentration. any more than 66% the freeze point goes up. (i pulled a graph off an alaskan web site.) ie. do not use pure antifreeze.<br /><br />i use elk chasers method.

 

[John_S]

Re: 1st I/O Winterizing - ??? on filling w/antifreeze

Quote: "i think your going way overboard if you drain the block and manifords and then fill them with some no-tox RV antifreez and if you realy worried pour some down the raw water feed hose from the drive to protect the drive what due you guys think is going to happen" <br /><br />"your spilling enough antifreeze to kill have the animals in your area and your not protecting your motor any better it runs in raw water all season and all the antifreeze in the world is not going to undue that"<br /><br />You wouldn't be the 1st to say I can go overboard! Just make sure the dock is nearby ;-) Honestly, I don't think I am going overkill with the antifreeze vs just draining. My understanding is that bare metal will rust more quickly exposed to O2, then when exposed to direct water. Even the Merc manual says to use antifreeze (low-tox) for extended storage for additional insurance against freezing and rust. Remember, this is going to sit for 8-9 months.<br /><br />Not sure how you are coming to the conclusion, that I am poisoning everything. I plan to recover as much as possible, and will run on muffs, with garbage can collecting the intitial flush, before it will be back in water.

 

[John_S]

Re: 1st I/O Winterizing - ??? on filling w/antifreeze

tom ryan, <br />Thanks, I do need to stop and look at some of the antifreeze bottles, for ratings. Does the type matter? Ethylene vs Propylene Glycol? on the percentage. I certainly can get a couple of gallons of distilled water.

 

[tommays]

Re: 1st I/O Winterizing - ??? on filling w/antifreeze

i am not talking about no-tox but about people useing regular toxic antifreeze in a 50-50 mix if you * that by the number of boats in ny alone you are talking about spilling millions of gallons in ny <br /><br />thats why auto shops cant dump your raditor fluids down the drain anymore it has to be recycled i have easly protected my motor with 1/2 a gallon of no-tox in the crital places<br /><br />tommays

 

[John_S]

Re: 1st I/O Winterizing - ??? on filling w/antifreeze

tommays,<br />At no point during this thread, did I advocate Ethylene Glycol, that you are refferring to. The Brown's Marina article does talk about using it. I suggest writing to them, and see if they would reconsider their position.