1999 75hp Force (need help finding the neutral safety "switch" so I can jump it)

[estes82]

1999 75hp Force (need help finding the neutral safety "switch" so I can jump it)

I am going to check my timing on my 1999 mercury/force 75hp outboard 2 stroke. My 1997 Sun Tracker Party Deck has a 41 gallon tank that I successfully ran dry last weekend using the Quicksilver Quickcleen #2. I just got the boat in November and I have no idea how long that gas had been in the tank. Ran well at top speeds however to start it I did have to advance the throttle. Advancing the throttle is not something I have done the first couple of times I took the boat out to get it to start, so it might have just been the fuel treatment. I am aware from reading many threads here that this engine should have the cold start setting on its own if the timing is set correctly. However I had played around with the idle settings and changed the starter and have turned the flywheel a few times in aggravated displeasure when my rebuild of the starter failed me lolol...

So anyways, after reading many threads and watching some of the videos, Franks especially, Im going to check the timing by grounding the wires and have my wife crank it at WOT. I just for the life of me can figure out where the neutral safety "switch" is?...

Also I don not have any good photos, the boat is 3 hours away at the moment. I left it parked at the cabin down at Lake Barkley. So a diagram would be good or really a good explanation, as there are no a lot of parts that I have not cleaned on this engine... grounds etc...

 

[pnwboat]

On the later model Force motors, the Neutral Safety switch is usually mounted inside the Throttle handle Assy. It's two Yellow/Red wires that go to the switch inside the Throttle handle Assy.

Instead of having someone crank the motor with the throttle wide open, and jumpering the Neutral Safety switch, I use a remote manual starter switch like the one below. Hook one side to the small Yellow/Red wire on the starter solenoid, the other end to the main battery cable on the starter solenoid. Turn the ignition key to the "ON" position and press the button on the remote starter and the motor cranks over and I can check the timing. Since the ignition key is in the "ON" position, the ignition system supplies voltage to fire the plugs. You don't have to mess with jumpering the safety switch.

 

[jerryjerry05]

The setting or re-setting the timing usually doesn't need to be done unless you changed a part or messed with the timing.
​They don't jump or move unless you do something.
If you do set the timing, the Mercury ignition needs to be set differently than the Prestolite.
You have Mercury.
I think you need to set it at 32 to get 30d
You should get a factory manual.
The "cold start" is usually in the shifter.
Either a lever on the shifter or the handle pulls out and advances the throttle.
I've never seen a " warm up, automatic system" on the Forces or the older smaller outboards.
The newer motors have that feature.

 

[estes82]

Only thing on my shifter is the trim. Its a quicksilver 2000 (maybe 3000) shifter. Jist forward, neutral, and reverse. Unless there is something about the shifter im un aware of...

The ignition is "Tracker" brand. So im not sire if that matters for what you are saying about the mercury vs the prestolite...? Im going to check it and see where we are at in the morning. If it is anywhere with in 28 to 32 degrees, i will leave it alone, for now. Peace of mind is what im looking for.

Id love a manual. Do you know where I can find one? Been searching ebay for months with little luck. I have so many questions and only this forum and a Mercury Mechanic shop in Louisville that I can get info from. Thanks for you help.

I got the remote starter btw.

 

[pnwboat]

The safety switch is inside the body of the shifter. You have to take it apart to get to it. I wouldn't bother. The remote starter by-passes the neutral safety switch if you hook it up to the starter solenoid like I mentioned earlier. Just be sure nothing is close to the prop....or take the prop off when you crank it over with the throttle handle in the WOT position.

 

[jerryjerry05]

The shift handle might pull out to advance the fast idle.
​Tracker is the name given to sell boats by a big retailer. means nothing.

Prestolite is the older ignition system. Ignore that.

It's not gonna be cheap but a Mercury dealer is where to find the manual.
Make sure you tell them you want a factory service manual.
They'll sell you a Clymer or Seloc if you don't watch em??

Like I suggested: don't touch anything unless you changed the trigger .
Timing doesn't change unless you change it or something breaks.

Lots of motors get "adjusted" and don't need it.
My motors haven't been touched in years and the timing is the same as when it was set when I set them when I bought the boat.

 

[estes82]

The timing reads at 20 degrees when my light is set at 30 degrees.

 

[estes82]

This boat most likely came with a suzuki outboard on it. It has a suzuki tac, speed odometer, and fuel gauge in the dash. What is the likelihood that this also has a suzuki ignition? Does the ignition have something to do with the way the timing is set? Im not sure a Mercury book would point me in the right direction here. Not sure where to go from here either...

 

[Jiggz]

First you need to identify if the motor is either a Force or a Suzuki. And from there you can tell if the ignition system is either a Mercury or Suzuki. There's just no way that a Force or Mercury motor will have Suzuki ignition system or even the other way. Post a pic if you are not sure.

 

[jerryjerry05]

How are you checking the timing?
​Are you advancing the throttle and have the plugs out and grounded?
You don't need to "jump" the switch.
Use a start box or a wire hooked to a hot lead and touch the solenoids yellow/red lead.

You need to ground the plugs and advance the throttle all the way to check the timing.


READ the first few posts in this forum.
It has a bunch of posts covering static timing and carb adjustment and synchronization.
Covers water pump changes and more.

Trackers: I think most of that year were sold with Forces.
It's possible a Susucki was installed??
The Susucki tach and trim gauge shouldn't work with your Force.
The other gauges should as they have nothing to do with the engine.

You need 5 posts before you can add pics.

 

[estes82]

First you need to identify if the motor is either a Force or a Suzuki. And from there you can tell if the ignition system is either a Mercury or Suzuki. There's just no way that a Force or Mercury motor will have Suzuki ignition system or even the other way. Post a pic if you are not sure.

When someones says never with this much certainty, then they are usually wrong. However I am the newbie around here so lets just pretend for a moment I have no clue if my motor is a 1999 Mercury Brand Froce with and April Emissions tag on it... Or possibly a suzuki because that is what the Tac, Speedometer, Voltmeter, and Fuel gauge in this 1997 Tracker dashboard/helm says.

Ok that moment is over and we are still in the Force section of the forum. I assure you, kind sir, I know what I have.

My assumption is the original owner blasted the suzuki of the back inside the warranty period and Tracker replaced it?... or something along those lines and thus I have one of the very last ever made (from my understanding) Force Outboards.

 

[estes82]

Meaning they likely replaced the ignition with a Mercury ignition while said work was performed.

 

[estes82]

How are you checking the timing?
​Are you advancing the throttle and have the plugs out and grounded?
You don't need to "jump" the switch.
Use a start box or a wire hooked to a hot lead and touch the solenoids yellow/red lead.

You need to ground the plugs and advance the throttle all the way to check the timing.


READ the first few posts in this forum.
It has a bunch of posts covering static timing and carb adjustment and synchronization.
Covers water pump changes and more.

Trackers: I think most of that year were sold with Forces.
It's possible a Susucki was installed??
The Susucki tach and trim gauge shouldn't work with your Force.
The other gauges should as they have nothing to do with the engine.

You need 5 posts before you can add pics.

I used these as my guide to check my timing. One is from the very helpful "Frank" that post on here all the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1HmYyOQFW8&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDoR64jP5l8&feature=youtu.be

Also the gauges on the dash/helm work. The suzuki tac, speedometer, voltmeter, and fuel gauge all work.

Again my timing is set at 20 degrees. Should I set it at 28? And yes this is at WOT (wide open throttle) or "static" with plugs grounded, using a remote starter as recommended earlier in this thread. Yes, also I have my carbs properly synced using another great video from Frank on youtube.

Advice and help appreciated.

 

[pnwboat]

Since you have the CDM ignition, your timing should be set at 30? BTDC. The older Prestolite ignition systems are set at 28? BTDC.

 

[jerryjerry05]

The tach, I was wrong as the Suckzuki and the later Forces probably used a 12pole stator.
The older Forces used a 20p and are incompatible with most other motors(my bad)
To achieve the 30d you need to set the timing at 32d static timing,

 

[estes82]

So bringing it up from 20 degrees to 32 should get me.... a higher top end speed? Or faster out of the hole? This is a theoretical question at this point. Asking to learn as when I do this I can know what to expect.

Your take?

And again thank you for the help. This is perfect info.

 

[Jiggz]

Compare with just 20 degrees, that is correct. With the correct timing you should achieve higher top end speed and better hole shot. This is with the assumption everything being equal and the fuel air mixture screw is set correctly. Note setting timing on this motor requires only the basic induction type timing light and not the complicated auto set advancing types.

 

[estes82]

https://goo.gl/photos/jC7E2Kj9YDSMtYbx7

Not sure how to upload photos on the forum yet... ill figure it out soon im sure... it says my pictures from my phone are too large to add?..

Anyways, i put some whiteout on the flywheel to make it easier to read with the timing light. Advanced it from 20 BTDC static to 32 degrees. She should pur like a kitten now. It will be a few weeks beforw I get her back in the water. Going to have some electrical work to do under the helm. Have some shorts from too many cut wires going on.

Thanks for the help.