1998 Evinrude 90hp E90ELECM

wh812

Cadet
Joined
Aug 16, 2019
Messages
9
Been having quite the time narrowing down my issues on my engine. Problems started a few weeks ago and have progressively gotten worse. Engine will start in neutral and idle for a few second and then die. It will start and run if neutral detent is pressed and engine accelerated to anything about 11-1200rpm. And will run fine there. If throttle is retarded back towards neutral near 1100 rpm it will slow and eventually die within seconds after reaching that rpm. Put it back in regular neutral no throttle input it will again start and die. If I have someone start the engine I can manually move the timing on top of the engine (where the throttle roller normally moves it) and the engine will run continuously in neutral as long as I hold the timing arm over. Whenever I begin to let the arm back to normal resting position the engine will die. Racking my brain on this one. What senses idle timing? Could my optical sensor be bad. Reluctant on that since engine runs fine above 1200 rpm. Any ideas greatly appreciated.
 

Joe Reeves

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
13,262
This "Neutral Detent" you speak of pushing in to keep the engine running... describe it and how do you go about pressing it in.
 

wh812

Cadet
Joined
Aug 16, 2019
Messages
9
Neutral detent on the remote shifter. Press button in and allows you to rev engine not in gear
 

Joe Reeves

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
13,262
Neutral detent on the remote shifter. Press button in and allows you to rev engine not in gear

Okay, understood. Take a compression reading with "all" of the spark plugs removed, then let us know what the psi readings are of the individual cylinders.
 

wh812

Cadet
Joined
Aug 16, 2019
Messages
9
Okay I will try to do that this evening. Pending good results what would you try next?
 

wh812

Cadet
Joined
Aug 16, 2019
Messages
9
Got three cylinders at 120, one at 115. That’s right about where they have always been as well.
 

Chris1956

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 25, 2004
Messages
27,831
Gee, it sounds like your Quickstart isn't working, and your carbs are dirty.
 

Joe Reeves

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
13,262
For the time being, put the "Fast Start" feature on the back burner... that can be checked later. Keep in mind that the engine only has to run a very short time to warm up and that Fast Start feature grounds out via its sensor to lower the idle to where it should be as if the Fast Start feature never existed in the first place. Frankly, in my humble opinion, it's a not needed piece of electronic junk entitled a piece of sophistication that breeds problems! Apparently a engineer or two thought that it was just too much for us dunb***** boaters to add a little throttle when starting the engine. (sigh)

Now, getting that off my chest... The compression and the slight difference difference of 5 psi on one cylinder is okay... BUT... do keep your eye on that lower 5 psi cylinder for any further drop.

Remove "all" the spark plugs and take a spark test. The spark must jump a 7/16" Air Gap with a strong blue lightning like flame... a real SNAP! NOTE that the 7/16" Air Gap is important... nothing else will do.

Let us know specifically the details/results of the spark test.... NOT generalities such as It's great, good, normal, that sort of thing.
********************
(Spark Tester - Home Made)
(J. Reeves)

You can use a medium size philips screwdriver (#2 I believe) inserted into the spark plug boot spring connector, then hold the screwdriver shank approximately 7/16" away from the block to check the spark or build the following:

A spark tester can be made with a piece of 1x4 or 1x6, drive a few finishing nails through it, then bend the pointed ends at a right angle. You can then adjust the gap by simply twisting the nail(s). Solder a spark plug wire to one which you can connect to the spark plug boots, and a ground wire of some kind to the other to connect to the powerhead somewhere. Use small alligator clips on the other end of the wires to connect to ground and to the spark plug connector that exists inside of the rubber plug boot.

Using the above, one could easily build a spark tester whereas they could connect 2, 4, 6, or 8 cylinders all at one time. The ground nail being straight up, the others being bent, aimed at the ground nail. A typical 4 cylinder tester follows:

..........X1..........X2

.................X..(grd)

..........X3..........X4

This can obviously be modified to a 6 or 8 cylinder setup tester.
********************
Now, with the compression you mentioned... and if the spark is as it should be, the next move would be to check the carburetors for clogging, fouling, gumming up. And especially to make sure that the high speed jets that are located horizontally in the bottom center portion of the float chamber, way in back of the drain screw plugs are clear. Best to clean them out with a blunt ended piece of single strand steel wire if needed.... NOT a sharp pointed anything to simply punch a hole in that clogging junk. Pay particular attention to whatever carburetor is feeding that 115 psi cylinder.
 

Chris1956

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 25, 2004
Messages
27,831
As Joe says, the Quickstart feature is the minor part of your problem, IMO. A bit of throttle when the motor is cold will duplicate Quickstart.
 

wh812

Cadet
Joined
Aug 16, 2019
Messages
9
Okay I will do a spark check tonight and then I will move further in. Is it possible to probe these carburetors without pulling them off the engine? Just out of curiosity how does the quick start operate the timing advance? More specifically is it a standalone electrical device or is it tied in with another component.
 

Joe Reeves

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
13,262
Okay I will do a spark check tonight and then I will move further in. Is it possible to probe these carburetors without pulling them off the engine? Just out of curiosity how does the quick start operate the timing advance? More specifically is it a standalone electrical device or is it tied in with another component.

Not sure which carburetors are on that model... 4 single throat plastic ones... or... 2 dual throat aluminum ones.

If plastic, one high speed jet to a carburetor, horizontal in the bottom center portion of the float chamber, way behind the drain screw plug.

If aluminum, two high speed jets to a carburetor, horizontal in the bottom center portion of the float chamber, way behind the drain screw plugs, one on each side of the carburetor float chamber.

The high speed jets have a 1/4x20 thread to them and are screwed in snugly tight. They may be removed using a screwdriver with a shank that just clears the 1/4x20 threads of the drain screw plug. The normal tip of the screwdriver must be removed, then the tip of the shank filed to fit the jet perfectly as per the graphic below.

Click image for larger version  Name:	317002_CARB-JET_REM-INST.JPG Views:	1 Size:	54.5 KB ID:	10789017
Ignore the price mention -= Long Gone!

NOTE: There have been times when the handle of the tool would be in the way whereas normally the carburetor would need to be removed.... in which case I would have the proper size shank "only" with its end filed to fit the jet perfectly, and cut to whatever length needed to avoid removing that carburetor.... first having that tool locked into the jet with its precise tip, then using small vice grips to turn the shank. Once the jet is loosened, the shank can be spun out with your fingers to retrieve and ire-insert the jet.
 
Last edited:

wh812

Cadet
Joined
Aug 16, 2019
Messages
9
Okay, so spark test is good. All have a good blue color spark at the 7/16” gap. Don’t have to right tools with me to attempt messing with carb jets. Still does the same idle issue. Will run with throttle advanced in neutral. Still seems like something with timing going on.
 

wh812

Cadet
Joined
Aug 16, 2019
Messages
9
What does the end of the tool look like? Best if I have a good idea of the tool to help with removal and installation as I am still floating on the water for now
 

Chris1956

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 25, 2004
Messages
27,831
Gee, there is a timing spec for that motor. A service manual will have it. Best to check it, before tearing into carbs. Are they plastic or metal carbs? If plastic, check bowls for warping and leaks.
 

wh812

Cadet
Joined
Aug 16, 2019
Messages
9
I am not sure on the carb material I wasn’t paying too much attention. However, I did enlist the help of a good friend and fellow mechanic this morning to go down and take a look during daylight. Working a full time job during the day leaves very little daylight left in the evenings. He looked it over really well and seems to think we have a vro issue going on and that’s choking the carbs out with oil. Would that be a possibility and if so, is there a forum already on here about disabling the vro. Surely there is with as many issues as it causes.
 

Chris1956

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 25, 2004
Messages
27,831
The VRO (actually OMS) pump will pump extra oil, if you have an air leak in the gasoline supply. I would check for this, before disable of OMS, as it is a good system
 

Joe Reeves

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
13,262
What does the end of the tool look like? Best if I have a good idea of the tool to help with removal and installation as I am still floating on the water for now

The business end of the tool is as pictured... centered, all 90 degree angles, flat, no bevels. It is to be a perfect fit into the face of the jet. You'll need a jet to go by.
 
Top