1998 115 Evinrude Won't Start

[c6mcfall]

Re: 1998 115 Evinrude Won't Start

The OIS ingnition system is pretty simple really. I am with Daselbee about the sensor. I have always replaced them as a unit, sensor and pack. You can get spurious readings from them if you are not careful, from stray light when you have the cover off the sensor assembly. Hope you checked the stator, but from my experience the stator is NEVER the problem on these engines.

My money is on BRP rather than CDI, that was until BRP starting using CDI stuff on there engines. Go figure.

I would take Daselbee up on his offer. He can throw the parts on to check the ignition and replace only what needs to be replaced.

Daselbee,
Thanks for the offer and I will take you up on that! I will PM you, I've been working and have not had a chance to check for updates. It will be a while though, next scheduled day off is not until 9/21.. On the Opti, I figured if I was going to do the pack I would do the Opti anyway. In the end my boys will be using this more than me so I want to be sure they don't get stuck.. I will monitor my post more frequently, I did order more parts, anyway.. not going to sweat it.

Multimech,
Thanks for the advice, I thought be best to stick with BRP. I've not checked the stator yet. I will read up on it in the evening.

 

[c6mcfall]

Re: 1998 115 Evinrude Won't Start

Did some testing after work before it got too dark.

Stator Resistance Test: Tested Good

- Resistance between the Brown/Brown white should be between 1000-1200 ohms, was 1095 ohms.
- No Continuity between any of the Stator Terminals and Ground

Ignition Coil Resistance Test: Questionable??

- Primary Winding Resistance - Coil Primary Terminal Lead; Good Ground should be 0.05 - 0.15 ohms (checked this 3 times and also tested a 1 ohm resistor). My reading 1.9 ohms. (this was top coil, bottom coil got 1.8 ohms.)
- Secondary Winding Resistance - Primary Terminal Lead; Spark Plug Terminal should be 225 -325 ohms. My reading 300 ohms.

Since I didn't have PVA could not test the voltage output of the stator or the power pack. I do have analog meters (Simpson 260) but would imagine could not use that for the voltage test.

 

[daselbee]

Re: 1998 115 Evinrude Won't Start

The only time you really need to use the DVA is when you are trying to measure pulses from the ignition system. For example, the pulse signal on the orange wire that leads from the pack to the coil will need to be a DVA reading. The pulses from the timer base (OR optical ignition system in your case) will be DVA measurements. BUT!!! The output of the brown pairs from the stator can be read with a regular AC voltmeter. You should have up in the range of 175-200 VAC on the brown pairs. The yellow pairs drive the battery charging circuit, and should be around 25VAC at cranking speed. And finally, the orange pair powers the powerpack, and should be about 30VAC. All these can be measured with a normal volt-ohm meter. Post the results.

 

[c6mcfall]

Re: 1998 115 Evinrude Won't Start

The only time you really need to use the DVA is when you are trying to measure pulses from the ignition system. For example, the pulse signal on the orange wire that leads from the pack to the coil will need to be a DVA reading. The pulses from the timer base (OR optical ignition system in your case) will be DVA measurements. BUT!!! The output of the brown pairs from the stator can be read with a regular AC voltmeter. You should have up in the range of 175-200 VAC on the brown pairs. The yellow pairs drive the battery charging circuit, and should be around 25VAC at cranking speed. And finally, the orange pair powers the powerpack, and should be about 30VAC. All these can be measured with a normal volt-ohm meter. Post the results.

Daselbee,
Thanks for the detailed information. Here are the results..

- Brown Pair from Stator @ 128 VAC (Should be ~ 175-200 VAC)
- Orange Pair @ 26.2 VAC (Should be ~30 VAC)
- Yellow Pair @ 12.2 VAC (Should be ~25 VAC)

I did check the battery voltage before starting the test and it was 12.9 and I did have the plugs in the motor. I've pulled the battery to put it on charge while I'm at work to make sure its fully charged as I would expect the cranking RPM will affect the readings.. Again made the assumption the cranking test would be with the plugs in.

 

[daselbee]

Re: 1998 115 Evinrude Won't Start

I did some math, and 128vac should give a 180v DVA measurement. My post regarding the voltage you should expect is wrong. I was quoting 175-200 volts DVA voltage (from memory) and I should not have done that, confusing the issue even more. The 180 DVA value is OK. The CDI DVA charts show 150 to 400v DVA (running RPM accounts for the wide range). I think your stator is OK. The only real concern is the low 12.2 VAC on the yellows. We can address that later when you get the engine running. At this point, I would love to see the DVA voltage on one of the orange coil primaries. It should be close to the brown pair voltage. If way low, the pack is faulty. By the way, this is exactly why the books say to use a DVA meter for all ignition measurements. It avoids the confusion factor that I just added in here, by simplifying everything for the tech. All he has to remember is DVA, and consulting the DVA charts. Again, sorry. But when you have no DVA meter, and IF YOU CAN AVOID THE MISTAKE I MADE, then a regular volt-ohmmeter will work. The math I did was VAC x 1.4 = DVA volts. Very rough, but will suffice.

 

[c6mcfall]

Re: 1998 115 Evinrude Won't Start

I did some math, and 128vac should give a 180v DVA measurement. My post regarding the voltage you should expect is wrong. I was quoting 175-200 volts DVA voltage (from memory) and I should not have done that, confusing the issue even more. The 180 DVA value is OK. The CDI DVA charts show 150 to 400v DVA (running RPM accounts for the wide range). I think your stator is OK. The only real concern is the low 12.2 VAC on the yellows. We can address that later when you get the engine running. At this point, I would love to see the DVA voltage on one of the orange coil primaries. It should be close to the brown pair voltage. If way low, the pack is faulty. By the way, this is exactly why the books say to use a DVA meter for all ignition measurements. It avoids the confusion factor that I just added in here, by simplifying everything for the tech. All he has to remember is DVA, and consulting the DVA charts. Again, sorry. But when you have no DVA meter, and IF YOU CAN AVOID THE MISTAKE I MADE, then a regular volt-ohmmeter will work. The math I did was VAC x 1.4 = DVA volts. Very rough, but will suffice.

I did order the REAL shop manual, should be here on Monday. A buddy of mine has a PVM, I am going to pick it up on my way home from work. Hopefully will get home before dark.. I am going to order a DVA so I have it.

 

[c6mcfall]

Re: 1998 115 Evinrude Won't Start

Got the meter and bought a new timing light.. Will be doing test's hopefully this evening.

 

[c6mcfall]

Re: 1998 115 Evinrude Won't Start

Tested with the meter Fluke 87... It has Min/Max but it basically showed slight increase in voltages

- Brown Pair from Stator @ 129 VAC (Should be ~ 175-200 VAC)
- Orange Pair @ 29 VAC (Should be ~30 VAC)
- Yellow Pair @ 15 VAC (Should be ~25 VAC)

This was testing with the connector off the power pack. m Connected it all back up and it's running.. Rough, but running..

Hooked up the timing light.. looks to be 4 degree from TDC @ idle.. Thought I saw a miss on cylinder 3, will have to retest later (working).. Also then tried spark gap tester, seemed to have weak spark on#1; checked the ohms of the wire again 683 ohms. Swapped with #4, better spark but would not say BRIGHT blue but it jumps the 7/16 gap.

Ohm reading on all spark plug wires is 500-700 ohm range.. too high?

Again testing the primary's on the coils the resistance is 1.9/1.8 ohms (book states .05 to .5 ohms).. Have not received the ones i ordered yet..

 

[daselbee]

Re: 1998 115 Evinrude Won't Start

Ok so u are posting almost the same voltages. Were u measuring peak voltages on the fluke, and where were you meazuri g? Plz measure orange w ires to coils in peak reading voltage mode.

 

[daselbee]

Re: 1998 115 Evinrude Won't Start

Stupid smart phones.....

 

[c6mcfall]

Re: 1998 115 Evinrude Won't Start

Gotta love smart phones and the small virtual keys..

I was in MAX mode when I took those, it has a Min/Max suppose to capture peak, also tried Min /Max mode, same readings. I did try Orange to to coil in "MAX" mode from the fluke and I got ZERO.. tried half a dozen times. So either I am not using the meter as the instructions state (read that over and over again, not too complicated.. Select Voltage, select range, select mode, measure..) or the peak is too fast for this meter to read. I know I have spark, so I know I have voltage but I get a ZERO reading from the fluke.. I pulled the circuit diagram from another post on building the DVA adapter. Going to call a few radio shacks, I'm working but I can ask the wife to pick up the parts and just build one.

 

[c6mcfall]

Re: 1998 115 Evinrude Won't Start

Radio Shack has nothing.. I'm in Orlando tomorrow, will see if I can hit skycraft for what I need.

 

[c6mcfall]

Re: 1998 115 Evinrude Won't Start

Daselbee, I will PM you as I’m finally getting a few days off starting this weekend.. Been 22 days since I had a day off, and I’m ready for it. Going to try and take a ? day Friday if I can.
Update – So I called and was able to stop the order I had placed for the pack and coils. I got the OEM Service manual and DVA adapter and was able to check a few things here and there as time permitted in the evenings.
Started with DVA and the stator, retested with the DVA and it was right at 189V Brown/Brown-White. Yellow Pair was 28V, Orange was 30.
Noticed the timing based lever was NOT against the stop on the flywheel cover, it was as far back as it could go. So I thought I should go through the link & sync procedure, which I did including setting the timing pointer. It states to leave the spark lever screw loose for the next adjustment which requires the “OMC Ignition Analyzer” which of course I do not have.. I did the Spark/Throttle Pickup point adjustment and used my timing light to check/adjust the idle timing. I have no real way to check/set the WOT timing. But it actually improved the idle, still seems to have a slight miss but it starts every time now. I’ve not had time to check power pack output or the coil output but I am confident the timing & sync were off..

 

[c6mcfall]

Re: 1998 115 Evinrude Won't Start

I took Doug up on his offer and took the boat over for him to look at. First and foremost I wanted to thank Doug (Daselbee) for his hospitality and assistance yesterday. It’s rare that someone will make such an off, to share their time and knowledge..

After several test’s on the stator, ignition, and the optical sensor it’s clear that the correct voltages are coming from the stator, ignition, and signals/voltage from the optical are all correct and going to the power pack. Yet no spark.. Had spark the day before because I could start the motor.. When Doug showed me a spark test on another engine it was much stronger/blue than anything I’ve seen to date on this motor. Based on the findings I will get a new Power Pack. I’m looking at the CDI, slightly less money but really I am more interested in quality..

 

[c6mcfall]

Re: 1998 115 Evinrude Won't Start

New Pack, New Coils, New wires.. Now running

 

[Jetfixr]

Re: 1998 115 Evinrude Won't Start

Does Doug have a shop?
Jet

 

[daselbee]

Re: 1998 115 Evinrude Won't Start

I do it for a "hobby on steroids" in my back yard. Try to help ppl get back on the water.