1996 Bayliner 1952CN, won't start after winterization - new boat owner

[ken01]

Hi everyone, I'm new and not very technical when it comes to engines and such. I'm a software engineer so you will have to bear with my ignorance on some things. But I read the 'how to post' thread and hope I get this right the first time.

I had a friend help me winterize the boat last fall, but I'm having a heck of a difficult time starting the boat. It turns over, but makes a weird noise between cranking and doesn't start. I believe I have followed the correct starting procedure:

The battery is on, blower on for a bit, key in the accessory position for 2 minutes, pump the throttle five times, crank the motor, let off after a few seconds if no start, pump throttle three more times, try again. Last year this started the motor every time without any problems, however this year no go.

Rather than trying to put into words the sounds the engine made, I made a video and uploaded it to YouTube:

Metadata:

Year, Make, and Model	1996, Bayliner, 1952CN
Engine Serial Number	0F604994
Transom Assembly Serial Number	0F634034
Stern Drive Unit Serial Number	0F715300

I think I posted enough information, please let me know if I am missing anything. Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Alumarine]

Welcome.
Try giving it full throttle after pushing the throttle only button.
Then start cranking for a bit.
Get ready to pull the throttle back if it starts.

 

[Bt Doctur]

1 remove the flame arrestor and verify choke is open a 1/8 inch
unless your a newer motor with TKS
2 place control in throttle only warm up, and try pumping when cranking.
3 if this fails, pour about 2 Oz of gas in the carb and try to start

 

[Eric 3.7LX Alpha 1]

Looks/sounds to me like it's not getting fuel with that little sneeze/backfire in the carb. I'd start with what BT Doctur mentioned. Your fuel bowl in the carb may be empty.

 

[achris]

Pumping the throttle 5 times seems a bit excessive. It may be flooded. Either let it dry out (for an hour or so) or set the throttle at wide open and start cranking, but be ready to pull the throttle back fast when it does start.

We saw on the video, a couple of white puffs from the carburettor. That indicates to me that it may be flooded.

Chris....

P.S. love that you've read the stickies, that's great. Not many people do that, so thanks...
One thing I'd like to add, if I may. When listing make, model, year use the engine data, not the boat. Listing the boat information says nothing about the engine (you also listed the serial numbers so we're able to look up the engine data from those). Boats aren't like cars. With cars the car maker is usually also the engine maker, and they generally put specific engines in particular cars, so listing the car make model and year gives most the engine information too. Boat builders don't make engines, they buy them from engine marinizers (companies like MerCruiser and Volvo Penta, who in turn buy their base engines from an engine maker, like GM and Ford, although Mercruiser are now making a few of there own engines, and then add their own accessories like manifold and ignition systems)... Based on the serial number you supplies for the engine, it's a 1996, MerCruiser 3.0LX. I'd also add that it has EST ignition (Mercruiser used 3 different ignition systems on those engines (Points, EST and 'distributorless') so sometimes that's useful to anyone trying to help... Cheers.

 

[ken01]

Welcome.
Try giving it full throttle after pushing the throttle only button.
Then start cranking for a bit.
Get ready to pull the throttle back if it starts.

Hi, thanks for the suggestion I tried this but only got more of the same.

1 remove the flame arrestor and verify choke is open a 1/8 inch
unless your a newer motor with TKS
2 place control in throttle only warm up, and try pumping when cranking.
3 if this fails, pour about 2 Oz of gas in the carb and try to start

1. What is a flame arrestor? The choke is some valve I imagine and it needs to be open 1/8th inch (I'll look this up too).
2. I think this is what the guy above suggested? I tried this earlier and nothing yet.
3. I will try this tomorrow. I went to the store and got new plugs and replaced them, the current ones looked fouled. It sounds better now when cranking (is that even possible?) but still no start.

Pumping the throttle 5 times seems a bit excessive. It may be flooded. Either let it dry out (for an hour or so) or set the throttle at wide open and start cranking, but be ready to pull the throttle back fast when it does start.

We saw on the video, a couple of white puffs from the carburettor. That indicates to me that it may be flooded.

Chris....

P.S. love that you've read the stickies, that's great. Not many people do that, so thanks...
One thing I'd like to add, if I may. When listing make, model, year use the engine data, not the boat. Listing the boat information says nothing about the engine (you also listed the serial numbers so we're able to look up the engine data from those). Boats aren't like cars. With cars the car maker is usually also the engine maker, and they generally put specific engines in particular cars, so listing the car make model and year gives most the engine information too. Boat builders don't make engines, they buy them from engine marinizers (companies like MerCruiser and Volvo Penta, who in turn buy their base engines from an engine maker, like GM and Ford, although Mercruiser are now making a few of there own engines, and then add their own accessories like manifold and ignition systems)... Based on the serial number you supplies for the engine, it's a 1996, MerCruiser 3.0LX. I'd also add that it has EST ignition (Mercruiser used 3 different ignition systems on those engines (Points, EST and 'distributorless') so sometimes that's useful to antone trying to help... Cheers.

Thanks for the tip, I'll keep this in mind.

Thanks for the tips everyone, I'll report back tomorrow after I go through the three steps from Bt Doctur.

 

[Rick Stephens]

New plug wires looks like. Double check order.

 

[ken01]

New plug wires looks like. Double check order.

I checked them against the documentation, seem to be in order. Good idea though!

1 remove the flame arrestor and verify choke is open a 1/8 inch
unless your a newer motor with TKS
2 place control in throttle only warm up, and try pumping when cranking.
3 if this fails, pour about 2 Oz of gas in the carb and try to start

1. I looked inside the carb, I am guessing a bit but I assume the choke is the brass valve at the bottom of the carb assembly? If so - it's fully open.
2. I tried cranking while pumping, and also tried cranking while full open throttle - I was able to get it to start, and then when I backed off it died. Here are two videos of my failed attempts, but maybe progress?

Attempt #1

Attempt #2

3. So I took the shield off the carb and took the aluminum can thing off. Is this supposed to be empty inside? At any length, I'm not sure where to pour the 2 oz of fuel? I don't want to start a fire by pouring it in the wrong spot.
I'll look up a video of this to see if I can find an example.

I am also thinking of just hooking up and going to a shop with it. I thought it would be cathartic working on it, but it's a bit frustrating heh. Where's the damn debugger button? But in all seriousness, any suggestions in Metro Detroit for places to get a boat repaired?

 

[Alumarine]

The flame arrestor is the square cover on top of the carb.
It does not need to be on for testing purposes. Just keep your face away from the top of the carb when trying to start it.
Not sure what you mean by the aluminum can.

Here's a couple of pictures that show what a choke looks like.
They may not be the same as your carb but will give you an idea.

The part circled in red is the choke in the open position.
This is what it should look like when the motor has warmed up.
The other picture shows the choke closed. The choke slowly opens as the motor warms up.

If the choke is fully open when the motor is cold then it will be hard to start and will not idle.

Do you have it hooked up to muffs to supply water to the motor while running?

 

[Bt Doctur]

Is the outdrive off? are you using muffs when trying to start? The exaust note sounds funny like a slight hydrolock or stuck valve.
Tell us EXACTLY the steps you took winterizing the motor

 

[ken01]

The flame arrestor is the square cover on top of the carb.
It does not need to be on for testing purposes. Just keep your face away from the top of the carb when trying to start it.
Not sure what you mean by the aluminum can.

Here's a couple of pictures that show what a choke looks like.
They may not be the same as your carb but will give you an idea.

The part circled in red is the choke in the open position.
This is what it should look like when the motor has warmed up.
The other picture shows the choke closed. The choke slowly opens as the motor warms up.

If the choke is fully open when the motor is cold then it will be hard to start and will not idle.

Do you have it hooked up to muffs to supply water to the motor while running?

Yup, I had it right, thanks for the clarification. The choke was fully open.

Is the outdrive off? are you using muffs when trying to start? The exaust note sounds funny like a slight hydrolock or stuck valve.
Tell us EXACTLY the steps you took winterizing the motor

Maybe a stupid question, but how would the outdrive be turned off? I have muffs hooked up and water on full blast.

To winterize I followed what this guy did:

The only change I did was I got one of those winterization kits so I didn't have to splash coolant everywhere on the inside of the engine bay. The kit was pretty self-explanatory, used the pressure of the water to create a vacuum and then opened the valve to let the coolant flow and turned off the water, the outdrive sucked in all the coolant and pushed out the water. I kept going until it was all pink coming out.

Besides that, I did exactly what that guy did in the video.

If I took a video of the outdrive when I start it, would that help in diagnosing the problem? I could do that tomorrow.

 

[achris]

The only change I did was I got one of those winterization kits so I didn't have to splash coolant everywhere on the inside of the engine bay. The kit was pretty self-explanatory, used the pressure of the water to create a vacuum and then opened the valve to let the coolant flow and turned off the water, the outdrive sucked in all the coolant and pushed out the water. I kept going until it was all pink coming out....

Unfortunately that's a first class ticket to a cracked block.

When the engine is running not a great deal of water exits the block. Using those flusher kits to suck the AF up only fills the manifold. Very little AF actually makes it into the engine, unless you completely drain the block before you start sucking up the AF....

I've watched the video and as with most of these DIYers, there's glaring errors. Errors that lead to damage down the track.

1. Don't run the engine with the drive trimmed up. It's very hard on Uni joints and gimbal bearings.
2. If you are going to use AF, completely drain the engine block and manifold (including the large water pump hose) BEFORE running any AF into the engine.
3. NEVER leave the drive empty for an extended length of time.
4. Fuel stabiliser is snake oil, don't waste your money. (That actually goes for all fuel and oil additives. They are made to make the sellers rich, nothing else)
5. He (and almost all of the 'Winterizing' videos) missed that you take the prop off and grease the shaft. You should also be removing the drive completely, servicing it and checking for water in the bellows and checking (and greasing if applicable) the gimbal bearing.

I rate this video a 3/10...

Chris....

 

[Rick Stephens]

Agree with Chris. You are better off with just draining the motor and pulling the drive off, which drains the drive of water, than doing the flushomatic BS that cannot get AF past the now instantly cold and fully closed thermostat.

 

[Alumarine]

Yup, I had it right, thanks for the clarification. The choke was fully open.

The choke should be almost fully closed when trying to start a cold motor.
Approximately a 1/8" open gap.

That's after pumping the throttle a couple of times and having the throttle advanced a tad.

 

[nola mike]

Well, in the video he drained the block after flushing with a/f... Which seems like a complete waste of a/f, but the block should be empty. Although he didn't clean out the drains either.
Also OP, you mentioned keeping key in "acc" position for a few minutes (assuming you mean ignition on). Don't do that, as that will open the choke.

 

[ken01]

So I had to put the boat away for the past month as I had construction at the house and siding replaced. I brought the boat back and it stays running and doesn't run roughly when I give it a bit of throttle. However, idle is very very rough and dies after a short period. I had a buddy over to look at it and give me some advice and he thinks that the idle jet is clogged so he suggested I take apart and clean the carburetor.

I think I can at least rule out that the motor is not cracked.

Before I make a mistake and view an incorrect youtube video, can you guys suggest how to remove, disassemble, clean, and put back the carb for my motor correctly?

 

[Lou C]

New plug wires looks like. Double check order.

that misfire suggests to me somene installed new wires and didn't get the order right!
my brother did the same thing on a Subaru about 35 years ago. I asked "did you follow the correct firing order?" That was it!

 

[Lou C]

So I had to put the boat away for the past month as I had construction at the house and siding replaced. I brought the boat back and it stays running and doesn't run roughly when I give it a bit of throttle. However, idle is very very rough and dies after a short period. I had a buddy over to look at it and give me some advice and he thinks that the idle jet is clogged so he suggested I take apart and clean the carburetor.

I think I can at least rule out that the motor is not cracked.

Before I make a mistake and view an incorrect youtube video, can you guys suggest how to remove, disassemble, clean, and put back the carb for my motor correctly?

That is a simple carb but if you've never done it before, you might be better off finding a shop that specializes in classic cars and taking it to them
Watched the other vids, some ideas:
sticking intake valves may be causing misfires
stuck float, could be flooding engine, when you open throttle above idle it gets enough air to run
clogged idle jets, as suggested
might want to remove the fuel filter (if it has a cannister model) dump the fuel out into a mason jar and see how it looks? layer of water or crud on the bottom?

 

[Lou C]

about winterizing, yeah, I hate those vids, with bad information
I always manually drain and poke all holes, make sure its all out, replace plugs, coat threads with gasket sealer, then back fill with my mix of 50/50 Sierra no tox antifreeze & water. Cheaper than the -100 I used to use and better as well. Use a refractometer to get the mix right.
20+years of salt water use, block still not rotted through, neither is the original intake manifold.
Changed the cyl heads in 2017 after blown HGs happened in '16. I know that antifreeze is a point of controversy but it seems to have worked for me! Salt water never forgives, or forgets.