1995 STARCRAFT ISLANDER 191V ADVICE / PRICE

[BerkshireBoater]

Hi Everyone,
I apologize for this long message - looking for advice from experienced Starcraft folks. I'm new to the group, and hoping to buy a Islander 191. I settled on this model, because it's light and easy to tow, has a cabin that could be used for overnighting, seems relatively fuel efficient, etc. It's not too big, and not too small. I'm hoping to use this on the Connecticut and Hudson Rivers, and up on the canals and Lake Champlain.

I looked at a 1995 that a local dealer has, and like the boat quite a bit. I was hoping to get feedback on the price from the group, and any particular things to look for in this or other Islanders. Here's what I learned on my inspection:

• The hull on the boat was about as mint condition as could be, topside paint clean with no scratches, no scratches on the bow or keel at all, just one dent on the bottom at the stern of the boat, on the keel, about the size of a saucer. It didn't look like it had hardly ever been in the water, and was never run up on a beach or the sand (which obviously is a little sad). This is an unusually nice hull, about as clean as I've ever seen.
• The cabin and cockpit and carpet were intact and showed little wear, but were not at all clean.
• Didn't detect any soft spots on the deck.
• No rips in the upholstery, in the cockpit or cabin
• The trailer was clean with slight surface rust in a few spots, tires ok but likely old / out of date.
• There's no canvas, bimini, or covers of any kind.
• The cabin doors are trashed and need replaced.
• The engine sound proofing / fireproofing is falling down and needs replaced.
• RPM gauge full of water.
• Weird toilet seat that must have had a bucket under it? (this would be the first thing to go)
• The dealer serviced the boat this summer 2023 and said: "Replaced throttle and shift cables from control box to motor
  Replaced shift cable from motor to outdrive (including shift cable bellows)
  Rebuilt carburetor
  changed fuel filters
  changed spark plugs
  Winterized with new engine and outdrive oils
  Replaced propeller
  Replaced trim gauge
  Trailer tires bearings,brakes and lights were all inspected
  gps and fishfinder anchor and vhf are all working"

So, it seems like a decent boat, though I'm a bit concerned about the engine - I've never had an IBO - this is the Mercruiser 3.0 - and while serviced, it's not particularly clean. The engine compartment has sort of a layer of grim that may or may not be the foam debris from the insulation? The dealer said he took the boat out three times last summer, and each time had to come back and do more service to it. I question if that's an engine that has all the bugs worked out of it (dealer says "YES") and is ready to work for a living, or if it's an engine that has the bad mojo, and will always be unreliable? He's asking $9,995, with a one month warranty on the engine / lights / safety type gear. Here's the link to the ad with pictures:

Inventory Unit Detail CR's Marine Service Schenectady, NY (518) 370-3596

Inventory Unit Detail CR's Marine Service Schenectady, NY (518) 370-3596

www.crsmarine.com

There are not of ton of Islander 191's around anywhere near me. I have two other candidates:

There's one on facebook that's about an 8 hour drive for $8,500, but the owner hasn't responded to my messaging. This one looks clean and has an almost new aluminum trailer, but leaky rivets:

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And this one on facebook is VERY close, maybe an hour away, newer, and exceptionally clean, but oh so expensive at $18,000:

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So, I'm just trying to make the best decision, especially in regards to pricing and the potential reliability of the engine. I'm not looking for an expensive rowboat

Thoughts? Advice?
Thanks, Michael

PS I put in links for the three boats, I'm not sure if you can open these - never posted here before.

 

[airshot]

I had a 22' Islander, 1983, loved that boat. Had the 140 hp version of the 3.0, had a few leaky rivets but never got around to tightening them up. Wife became dissabled so I was forced to downsize. That Islander was great, not sure I would drop down to the 19'....but, up to you. Mine did 34 mph by gps and a 100 mile cruising range on the 25 gallon tank.

 

[havoc_squad]

Hi Everyone,
I apologize for this long message - looking for advice from experienced Starcraft folks. I'm new to the group, and hoping to buy a Islander 191. I settled on this model, because it's light and easy to tow, has a cabin that could be used for overnighting, seems relatively fuel efficient, etc. It's not too big, and not too small. I'm hoping to use this on the Connecticut and Hudson Rivers, and up on the canals and Lake Champlain.

I looked at a 1995 that a local dealer has, and like the boat quite a bit. I was hoping to get feedback on the price from the group, and any particular things to look for in this or other Islanders. Here's what I learned on my inspection:

• The hull on the boat was about as mint condition as could be, topside paint clean with no scratches, no scratches on the bow or keel at all, just one dent on the bottom at the stern of the boat, on the keel, about the size of a saucer. It didn't look like it had hardly ever been in the water, and was never run up on a beach or the sand (which obviously is a little sad). This is an unusually nice hull, about as clean as I've ever seen.
• The cabin and cockpit and carpet were intact and showed little wear, but were not at all clean.
• Didn't detect any soft spots on the deck.
• No rips in the upholstery, in the cockpit or cabin
• The trailer was clean with slight surface rust in a few spots, tires ok but likely old / out of date.
• There's no canvas, bimini, or covers of any kind.
• The cabin doors are trashed and need replaced.
• The engine sound proofing / fireproofing is falling down and needs replaced.
• RPM gauge full of water.
• Weird toilet seat that must have had a bucket under it? (this would be the first thing to go)
• The dealer serviced the boat this summer 2023 and said: "Replaced throttle and shift cables from control box to motor
  Replaced shift cable from motor to outdrive (including shift cable bellows)
  Rebuilt carburetor
  changed fuel filters
  changed spark plugs
  Winterized with new engine and outdrive oils
  Replaced propeller
  Replaced trim gauge
  Trailer tires bearings,brakes and lights were all inspected
  gps and fishfinder anchor and vhf are all working"

So, it seems like a decent boat, though I'm a bit concerned about the engine - I've never had an IBO - this is the Mercruiser 3.0 - and while serviced, it's not particularly clean. The engine compartment has sort of a layer of grim that may or may not be the foam debris from the insulation? The dealer said he took the boat out three times last summer, and each time had to come back and do more service to it. I question if that's an engine that has all the bugs worked out of it (dealer says "YES") and is ready to work for a living, or if it's an engine that has the bad mojo, and will always be unreliable? He's asking $9,995, with a one month warranty on the engine / lights / safety type gear. Here's the link to the ad with pictures:

Inventory Unit Detail CR's Marine Service Schenectady, NY (518) 370-3596

Inventory Unit Detail CR's Marine Service Schenectady, NY (518) 370-3596

www.crsmarine.com

There are not of ton of Islander 191's around anywhere near me. I have two other candidates:

There's one on facebook that's about an 8 hour drive for $8,500, but the owner hasn't responded to my messaging. This one looks clean and has an almost new aluminum trailer, but leaky rivets:

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

And this one on facebook is VERY close, maybe an hour away, newer, and exceptionally clean, but oh so expensive at $18,000:

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

So, I'm just trying to make the best decision, especially in regards to pricing and the potential reliability of the engine. I'm not looking for an expensive rowboat

Thoughts? Advice?
Thanks, Michael

PS I put in links for the three boats, I'm not sure if you can open these - never posted here before.

$9,995 is too much for a 1995 191 Islander I/O with 3.0L.

Why? Because if for some reason insurance has to pay out for damages (someone else hits you with coverage or if you have full coverage), you're only going to get the book used value for it, not what other people are selling it for.

The current book value is around $2800 for "fair", good might get you $3500.
I'd say no more than $7K for that and get an independent service shop to check the engine and drive's condition before you buy.

https://www.jdpower.com/boats/1995/starcraft-co/islander-191/10175052/values

I know it's a less common boat so it may expect a premium, but $9995 even with 1 month warranty is a rip off.

I'd say no more than $7K for that and get an independent service shop to check the engine and drive's condition before you buy

Regarding the 2005 Islander 191, current book value is $6,290. I'd say no more than paying $11k, more likely $10k retail. Always have the boat inspected and tested by an independent service shop before buying any "AS-IS" boat.

Book value: https://www.jdpower.com/boats/2005/starcraft-co/islander-191/10224738/values

Those sellers are delusional if they think they are going to get buyers with those prices. Money tree has dried up very fast recently for many (borrowing on credit), and prices are going to have to drop this year and next.

 

[BerkshireBoater]

$9,995 is too much for a 1995 191 Islander I/O with 3.0L.

Why? Because if for some reason insurance has to pay out for damages (someone else hits you with coverage or if you have full coverage), you're only going to get the book used value for it, not what other people are selling it for.

The current book value is around $2800 for "fair", good might get you $3500.
I'd say no more than $7K for that and get an independent service shop to check the engine and drive's condition before you buy.

https://www.jdpower.com/boats/1995/starcraft-co/islander-191/10175052/values

I know it's a less common boat so it may expect a premium, but $9995 even with 1 month warranty is a rip off.

I'd say no more than $7K for that and get an independent service shop to check the engine and drive's condition before you buy

Regarding the 2005 Islander 191, current book value is $6,290. I'd say no more than paying $11k, more likely $10k retail. Always have the boat inspected and tested by an independent service shop before buying any "AS-IS" boat.

Book value: https://www.jdpower.com/boats/2005/starcraft-co/islander-191/10224738/values

Those sellers are delusional if they think they are going to get buyers with those prices. Money tree has dried up very fast recently for many (borrowing on credit), and prices are going to have to drop this year and next.

Thanks havoc_squad for your thoughts. That's sort of what my thinking is as well, but I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing something.

 

[airshot]

Spring is right around the corner, so all boat prices will start out high as demand is normally high. Doesn't mean they sell for that much !! Location and condition is everything !! So is having reciepts and documentation for all work and maintenence done. Those same boats will be 3K less at least after the middle of June.

 

[havoc_squad]

Spring is right around the corner, so all boat prices will start out high as demand is normally high. Doesn't mean they sell for that much !! Location and condition is everything !! So is having reciepts and documentation for all work and maintenence done. Those same boats will be 3K less at least after the middle of June.

I expect more price pressure this year and next pushing used boat prices down in US due to recent economic data showing too many have had their disposable income dry up and barely getting by.

If you haven't already gotten surprised already, don't be shocked if all of your insurance policies and property taxes go up 20% or more this year.

 

[redneck joe]

If the dealer told you that they had to bring back in and do more....that is a good sign. Why you ask? Because you can never tell everything when sitting in the shop hooked to a hose. Many, many post s started here about why this on a hose but this on the lake. Imo that speaks well for the dealer/service place. My local shade tree guy wont release the boat until he does a lake test.

Secondly, if the condition is way good it prob sat in a barn for much of its life and not using is worse thing for a boat. The components that make up the totality of the engine (and boat) have been asleep but still aging. When you or the service dude awakens them all they say 'hey bossman is back lets go' but then as the old people start having to actually work again they then say 'I'm too old for this shtuff' and just move on to the next existential for of being that all old boat part go to. Some last a day, some last a year or two.

All that to say if a couple grand on purchase price plus the inevitable couple grand on service that will come is holding you back, dont buy. If you accept the Fates that boating with old boats is money and time and blood and sweat and swearing and beer and sooooo much fun....go for it. Take a long cruise witb the seller and or mechanic and make your choice.



Welcome to the forum. You have found the best starcraft resource around.

 

[redneck joe]

Just looked at the pics, imo jump on that if they give you a summers worth of warranty and if no id still do it . Your mileage may vary.

 

[BerkshireBoater]

I expect more price pressure this year and next pushing used boat prices down in US due to recent economic data showing too many have had their disposable income dry up and barely getting by.

If you haven't already gotten surprised already, don't be shocked if all of your insurance policies and property taxes go up 20% or more this year.

Oh, I've already had both of those happen

 

[Moserkr]

As far as insurance goes, I have a stated value policy on my 1979 boat through Progressive. If they deem it totaled, I get $20k and thats it, no arguing. So that parts not a worry.

Fixing rivets, floors, and a door isnt hard if you're handy. A dent along the keel would concern me for popped rivets. My boat had a decent dent from a previous owner hitting a log, and almost 200 rivets (10% of total) were bad from that.

Highly recommend you get a seller to take the boat out on the water with you before you buy. Then consider blue book price. Then consider the condition of the motor and hull. Interior and floor would be last on my list of concerns because a 30 year old boat is going to need it redone soon anyway. When you redo the floors and interior, plan on fixing any bad rivets, sealing the hull, and replacing the transom. Then you'll have another 20-40 years of good use out of your boat at a fraction of the cost of a new one.

 

[Moserkr]

Looked at the 2 cheaper boats you shared. Both look nice from the pics. Replacing seats is easy. Fixing rivets isnt the end of the world either.

 

[Gibbles]

I love me some islanders!
Watch out for "leaky rivets", the one I bought had that.
Or so the seller thought, turned out to be a cracked engine block.

I didn't notice it until I noticed water in the oil, then the exhaust came off and I saw a clear rusty crack.

mine was a 1994 islander 221 with the 4.3 MerCruiser.
Paid $7200 as "Turn key", but after the crack was found the seller refunded me some money turning it into $3800 but needing a new engine/block.

I'm also in UT, Islanders aren't easy to find here.

Otherwise, I say run with your heart like I did and say "to hell with the wallet".

 

[BerkshireBoater]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts, this is great and very helpful feedback!

 

[Gibbles]

Looking at those boats, i can't believe how good the hulls look.

For the dealer and 90% of the sellers, don't believe them 100%.

That dealership example looks great.
With my islander i believe they were asking 92 or $9300.

I spent some time trying to find some like examples, including the nada (or something like that) had a value of $7000 (or something close).

I went in prepared with a speech loaded with my research for what a good value should be.

I'm not sure what the value of a 191 would be these days... lol

My research on the 221 lead me to believe that the closer you are to big water, the value increased, so i took that into account with my offer.

I'll note that i was determined to bring my 221 home no matter what, plus it was a long drive.

Dealership, expect to pay more.
They know how how to manipulate people... lol
A normal person is usually much easier to deal with in my experience.

So much so that my last 3 or 4 cars i only use a Dealership to look, make a decision on what i like and then start shopping for sale by owners.

As for the dirty engine, in a way that sort of sounds like it's atleast maybe a honest dirt.
But expect to have little issues on a older boat.

No matter what, expect to replace the water pump impeller and change the oil and filter.
Plan on a new fuel/water separating filter.

For an io, they say you need to take the out drive off and inspect the engine alignment to the output shaft/gimbal bearing and look at the bellows so you don't sink the boat.
Yearly thing.

I'm getting ready to go through that my self, plus i want/need to yank the engine out...

Tons of info on youtube.

Anyways, have fun with it!

 

[BerkshireBoater]

UPDATE! Hi Everyone, using the information from this thread, I've negotiated with the guy at the marina to buy that boat for $7,500. Super excited. Going in Friday to close the deal. I appreciate everyone's thoughts and advice!

 

[BerkshireBoater]

I love me some islanders!
Watch out for "leaky rivets", the one I bought had that.
Or so the seller thought, turned out to be a cracked engine block.

I didn't notice it until I noticed water in the oil, then the exhaust came off and I saw a clear rusty crack.

mine was a 1994 islander 221 with the 4.3 MerCruiser.
Paid $7200 as "Turn key", but after the crack was found the seller refunded me some money turning it into $3800 but needing a new engine/block.

I'm also in UT, Islanders aren't easy to find here.

Otherwise, I say run with your heart like I did and say "to hell with the wallet".

Otherwise, I say run with your heart like I did and say "to hell with the wallet". That's my new favorite quote

 

[redneck joe]

UPDATE! Hi Everyone, using the information from this thread, I've negotiated with the guy at the marina to buy that boat for $7,500. Super excited. Going in Friday to close the deal. I appreciate everyone's thoughts and advice!

Pictures please, and be sure to get it out on the water and see how much water is taken on. Hopefully none.

 

[havoc_squad]

UPDATE! Hi Everyone, using the information from this thread, I've negotiated with the guy at the marina to buy that boat for $7,500. Super excited. Going in Friday to close the deal. I appreciate everyone's thoughts and advice!

I'm curious how much of that negotiation conversation was about how everyone but super wealthy is getting squeezed hard financially now, yourself included.

So willing to spend the money but price needs to come down closer to realistic market price based on condition and book value.

 

[redneck joe]

I'm curious how much of that negotiation conversation was about how everyone but super wealthy is getting squeezed hard financially now, yourself included.

So willing to spend the money but price needs to come down closer to realistic market price based on condition and book value.

He's happy so why bother with all this? Hell i'd prob have another $250k in my retirement accounts if i didn't spend it on boats but I'm happy. Let him be happy.

 

[havoc_squad]

He's happy so why bother with all this? Hell i'd prob have another $250k in my retirement accounts if i didn't spend it on boats but I'm happy. Let him be happy.

It's not being negative Ned here, it's curiosity on whether dealers see the writing on the wall and are more willing to seriously deal this year earlier in the boating season when it normally demands a premium.

That might be helpful for the next person in the buying mood for a used boat on this forum whether dealer or private party looking for good advice.