1995 OMC 5.0L Winterizing

[ggundersen3]

I recently bought a 1995 Four Winns 190 Horizon. It has a 5.0L OMC engine. The drive was changed a few years ago from an OMC to a Volvo Penta Cobra SX. It runs and shifts good. Question is, I had it winterized at a local marine dealer. They simply run the engine up to operating temperature then switch the water intakes over to -100 deg marine antifreeze for awhile until they see the antifreeze coming out water discharge. They do not open the drain plugs/petcocks on the block and manifold first to get fresh/ lake water out of block. They count on the "flush system' to replace all the laker water

 

[ggundersen3]

I'm re-posting this because my previous post wasn't complete.
I recently bought a 1995 Four Winns 190 Horizon. It has a 5.0L OMC engine. The drive was changed a few years ago from an OMC to a Volvo Penta Cobra SX. It runs and shifts good. Question is, I had it winterized at a local marine dealer this year because I just didn't have time to do it myself. They simply run the engine up to operating temperature on fresh water then switch the water intakes over to -100 deg marine antifreeze for awhile until they see the antifreeze coming out water discharge. They do not open the drain plugs/petcocks on the block and manifold first to get fresh/ lake water out of block. They count on the "flush system' to replace all the fresh water with antifreeze. They do not open any of the drain plugs/petcocks on the block or manifold to make sure fresh water is drained out first. Is there a way I can check to make sure antifreeze in there everywhere its supposed to be? Such as opening a drain plug/petcock or 2 on the block and manifold a little to make sure antifreeze comes out and not freshwater? Will that hurt anything if I do that.
Thanks

 

[Bt Doctur]

The only safe way is to flush and fog the motor until it stalls.
Open all the drains and probe to insure complete drainage.
Remove large hose at therm housing and pour the a/f directly into the block, and then into the manifold hoses

 

[Scott Danforth]

They do not open the drain plugs/petcocks on the block and manifold first to get fresh/ lake water out of block. They count on the "flush system' to replace all the fresh water with antifreeze. They do not open any of the drain plugs/petcocks on the block or manifold to make sure fresh water is drained out first.

fastest way to a cracked block.

factory manual says drain everything

 

[Lou C]

I can't believe that they are that lazy. Shameful! You're better off learning to do it right yourself.

 

[ggundersen3]

So I understand what you're saying. My question is with my current situation where I've paid to have the dealer winterize it, is there a way for me to check that its protected for this winter short of re-winterizing it. Can I check by opening all the drain locations just slightly to see if antifreeze comes out? There are drains(2) on either side of the block, where else? Is there any type of drain on the Cobra SX out drive? What else can I do to check that antifreeze is where it should be? Any and all advice appreciated.

 

[Scott Danforth]

At best you could open all the drains and sample the antifreeze and test its specific gravity.....or just drain it

 

[Lou C]

What you can do:
Get a couple paper cups and drain some AF from each engine drain and put the cups in a freezer set at zero. If they stay liquid and that’s the coldest you get then you’re good. If they freeze then drain the rest out of the engine and disconnect the bottom end of the big hose at the bottom end of the circulating pump, this holds a lot of liquid too. Be sure to poke the engine drains with a pick to make sure they drain. As far as the drive there may be a drain plug on the port side of the pivot housing (the part the drive bolts to). If you remove this plug see if it drains. If it doesn’t that area probably is full of AF since they sucked it up the drive. The exhaust manifolds should also be full of AF. The one question mark is the block itself. If you do have to drain it; you can easily fill it by reconnecting the bottom of that big hose at the circulation pump. Then disconnect the top end at the thermostat housing put a funnel in it and fill with AF till it spurts out the neck of the thermostat housing. Engine is full just reconnect that hose.

 

[Lou C]

http://shop2.evinrude.com/Index.aspx?s1=2tqclkccq1qrh523a2uuan5hf0&catalog_id=0&siteid=1

water drain is part #77 in this diagram

 

[ggundersen3]

OK Thanks. I'll be opening the drains in the next day or 2 to see what comes out, then testing the AF. I'll let you know what I find. The invoice says they use -100 F AF. BTW, is all marine AF red? And, how many gallons should they have used for this 5.0L?

 

[Lou C]

-100 is good and I've seen some that were red. I usually use 4.5-5 gallons. I used to use the West Marine -100 but its expensive and hard to find now so I buy 3 gallons of Sierra brand PG antifreeze and mix it 50/50 with water.

 

[Lou C]

also keep in mind if you are going to test it with a hydrometer, the ones for ethylene glycol do not work on propylene glycol, there are special ones for PG. If you don't get colder than zero you can set your freezer to zero and do that test. If you do get colder than zero, you can try to find the tester for PG antifreeze or buy some -100 and just refill it with that, if its not a strong enough freeze protection level.

 

[ggundersen3]

So here is the latest development. I unscrewed the port side drain on the block, a little bit (1/8 of a cup) of fresh water dribbled out, then nothing. No antifreeze. Hmmm? I called Centerpointe (this location is Centerpoint Yacht Service, they sell and service boats from my size and up to big yachts)and demanded an explanation this morning. Service manager said he'd talk to the tech who did the winterization and call back. He did. Tech explained on the "those older 5.0L" they simply open all the drains and drain all the fresh water out and actually do not put antifreeze in. They're going to credit me for the -100 antifreeze that I paid for. He said that little bit of water I saw come out could be from trailering it home/moving the boat around. They are going to email me a statement that they will stand behind the work should I have any trouble in spring. I never heard of no antifreeze in any stern drive-I/O. What do I do here? Believe them? Are they correct? Do I open the drains again and remove the hoses at the thermostat housing and add my own marine antifreeze til I see it come out of the drains? Do I take it to another marine dealer service center and have them re-winterize it? The good news is we don't have dangerously cold weather here in Milwaukee yet, so there's time to get this this corrected.
Advice/opinions appreciated here.

 

[Horigan]

Did you poke the open drain with a slender object? They can get plugged with rust flakes, so you're supposed to poke the drains to ensure they're clear.

It is preferred to just drain the raw water cooling system (drains, hoses, etc) verses adding anti-freeze. As Scott says, air doesn't freeze.

 

[ggundersen3]

Yes I did poke the open drain hole with a long slender object as far as it would go in and nothing more came out.

 

[Lou C]

Correct you drain for freeze protection and back fill with AF to reduce corrosion. I’d just make sure to really poke those holes well, get a set of picks and really dig them out because my starboard side one used to drain really slowly, when I did my top end overhaul I could really get down close to the drain and now it drains much faster. Of course I’m in salt water so a lot more rust that what you’d ever see. I do back fill with AF but for you proper draining is fine

 

[ggundersen3]

Thanks! You guys are helpful. So 2 further questions here: 1-Where are the additional drains located, one each side of the block, where else?
Is it worthwhile after opening all the drains and probing them to make sure they are not blocked, to remove hoses and fill with marine AF? Or not?

 

[Lou C]

There’s the 2 block drains the 2 manifold drains and you need to disconnect the lower end of the big hose that connects the thermostat housing with the bottom of the circulation pump. Also, most OMC/Volvo engines have a power steering cooler on the rear of the engine. These have a drain plug but they are tough to get at. What I’d do is disconnect the hose that connects the impeller housing (if you have the engine mounted pump) with the transom mount; put the drive down and fill that hose with AF. I use either -100 or 50/50 Sierra PG antifreeze. I do fill the engine & manifolds. Been doing this for 18 yrs....

 

[ggundersen3]

Thanks! I appreciate all you guys detailed help and advice. So, tell me if I'm correct. If the engine/drive was drained properly and completely, Im OK the way it is because i'm in fresh water territory and filling it with AF isn't a must? Filling with AF is optional precaution? I looked up online both the OMC shop manual and another after market instructions for winterizing a 5.0L and neither mentioned adding AF.

 

[Lou C]

Yes that is correct, remember you always properly drain to prevent freeze damage. Antifreeze is really just to reduce corrosion. And where you are, corrosion is probably a non-issue. Here we have to replace exhaust systems every 5-7 years. I bet you hardly ever if ever have to do that from what I hear.
Here's what the outlets of my old OMC one piece V6 manifolds looked like after about 5.5 seasons, vs new. One outlet is totally clogged. I had 3 sets of these on this engine and then changed to the center riser style used by OMC and Volvo.