1995 four winns horizon 190-GOOD/BAD

[vipertblck]

Re: 1995 four winns horizon 190-GOOD/BAD

Maybe I can clarify a bit. In the mid-late '90's OMC entered into a joint venture with Volvo-Penta. I believe that the Cobra SX drive was in fact created by OMC. Volvo sold them too under their own name,as V-P SX drives. When OMC went belly up Volvo sold them exclusively. Sooo, if you find an OMC Cobra SX, it's also a V-P SX. That applies ONLY to 'SX' type drives. An OMC King Cobra drive is a 'run away from it'.

My 1997 Four Winns is a conglomeration of V-P and OMC name tags- the drives are tagged as V-P SX, the engines are OMC Cobra 4.3's, and my throttle/shift control is labeled with the OMC brand. Drive and transom assembly serial numbers are V-P, engine MODEL is V-P, engine serial numbers are OMC... but it's all the same stuff and I buy parts through V-P suppliers.

Last year I needed a fuel pump. Called the local V-P parts guy. He looked and said he had 2 of the same- one had a V-P part number, the other OMC. He told me the OMC was about $10.00 cheaper so he'd sell me that one. When I arrived and he pulled it off the shelf, the OMC part was in a V-P box!

The kicker with this particular boat is the engine- it's Ford and you don't want one.

The outdrive only says "OMC COBRA" on it, nothing about king cobra, or cobra SX, so i'm not sure what thats all about or what drive it even is. i got some numbers off the back ill call a volvo penta dealer and see if they can cross reference maybe just to know if i can in fact get parts for this if i did purchase the boat.

Also another poster said something about manifolds being impossible to get, i've seen in other forums folks talk about manifolds, are exhaust manifolds a frequently replaced items on boats? I come from the automotive world and replacing manifolds is rare in my experience, is something different with marine engines that they require manifold replacement?

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: 1995 four winns horizon 190-GOOD/BAD

are exhaust manifolds a frequently replaced items on boats? I come from the automotive world and replacing manifolds is rare in my experience, is something different with marine engines that they require manifold replacement?

Yes they are replaced "frequently" depending on what type of water you boat in. The exhaust manifolds have water jackets surrounding the exhaust gas passages. This is what cools the manifold and keeps the temps under the engine cover at a reasonable level. Well, they are cast iron and filled with water, so they rust eventually. My manifolds were 8 years old and still fine when I sold my boat. But that was freshwater use only. Folks who boat in saltwater say 5 years is good.

 

[vipertblck]

Re: 1995 four winns horizon 190-GOOD/BAD

Ok I understand, this boat has only been fresh water as far as im aware, up in chicagoland area. although i couldn't find the hour meter, it didnt appear to have many hours on it, OR it was well taken care of & maintained.

Anyway after calling various marinas, they claim many of the outdrive parts for the OMC cobra are in fact available.

 

[Bondo]

Re: 1995 four winns horizon 190-GOOD/BAD

Yes they are replaced "frequently" depending on what type of water you boat in. The exhaust manifolds have water jackets surrounding the exhaust gas passages. This is what cools the manifold and keeps the temps under the engine cover at a reasonable level. Well, they are cast iron and filled with water, so they rust eventually. My manifolds were 8 years old and still fine when I sold my boat. But that was freshwater use only. Folks who boat in saltwater say 5 years is good.

Ayuh,.... What he says, Plus,... Ya said the motor Froze, 'n blew out the core plugs,...

That means the Odds are the Manifolds may also be Cracked, Already...

 

[vipertblck]

Re: 1995 four winns horizon 190-GOOD/BAD

Ayuh,.... What he says, Plus,... Ya said the motor Froze, 'n blew out the core plugs,...

That means the Odds are the Manifolds may also be Cracked, Already...

What's a way to tell/verify if the manifolds are cracked? I would assume it'd leak water into the cylinders, wouldn't it? Like i said the shop ran the thing on muffs for about an hour and looked like all was well, but again thats on muffs and not a sea trial...

 

[southkogs]

Re: 1995 four winns horizon 190-GOOD/BAD

What's a way to tell/verify if the manifolds are cracked? I would assume it'd leak water into the cylinders, wouldn't it? Like i said the shop ran the thing on muffs for about an hour and looked like all was well, but again thats on muffs and not a sea trial...

Muffs are not the same as running under load on the water. You need to run it on the water.

It doesn't much matter in terms of parts if it's a Cobra or King Cobra. As an OMC driver/owner - the reality is there are parts that are available, but not all of 'em are being manufactured. I'm keeping a '72 vintage OMC alive, and it's not been a killer but it does require (occasionally) that the boat sits in the garage while I scour CL and eBay.

At $5k, I'd keep lookin' especially in the Chicago (and expanded) area. If the price was considerably lower, I might be willing to gamble on it.

 

[Slip Away]

Re: 1995 four winns horizon 190-GOOD/BAD

Here is an example of "it ran fine " of a FW boat that did not blow freeze plugs, a 2006 model.

Well, it looks like even after I test drove the boat apparently I have serious engine problems... took in for 100hr service even though I only had 60 hrs. Here is what the dealer has me for so far--- *100 hr service $750.00
*Tear down $490
* Exhaust manifold,and riser (original parts from 2006),gaskets,cyl head gasket,thermostat, $1,100
* Labor $327
cylinder head,number 4 is bad,water damage,possible from overheat
we will send it out for inspection,and rebuild if no problem (cracks)found,I’ll let you know cost as soon
as they let me know.
-------------------
$2,667.00

So if the cylinder head needs to be rebuilt that is another $400 plus labor to reinstall.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: 1995 four winns horizon 190-GOOD/BAD

FYI "Freeze plugs" aren't really freeze plugs. They are casting plugs from when the engine block was cast. They do not exist to protect the engine from freeze damage.

 

[Slip Away]

Re: 1995 four winns horizon 190-GOOD/BAD

But they do "pop" when it freezes....

 

[ezmobee]

Re: 1995 four winns horizon 190-GOOD/BAD

But they do "pop" when it freezes....

Possibly in addition to other things

 

[Bondo]

Re: 1995 four winns horizon 190-GOOD/BAD

Sounds like this isn't the boat to be picking up, regardless of the price. Guess I'll take everyones advice here and walk from it, just hard to cuz it's very nice shape. Yes it is the FORD 302 engine.

Glad theres people out there to make people like me aware of issues like this. I appreciate it everyone.

Ayuh,... Very True, but it's soundin' like yer goin' the Opposite direction....

But they do "pop" when it freezes....

Ayuh,... That depends on how cold it gets, 'n more importantly, how Quickly it gets that cold...

The blocks coolin' system can be pressure tested with air, the manifolds can be, but must be pulled apart to do so...

 

[Don S]

Re: 1995 four winns horizon 190-GOOD/BAD

Maybe I can clarify a bit. In the mid-late '90's OMC entered into a joint venture with Volvo-Penta. I believe that the Cobra SX drive was in fact created by OMC. Volvo sold them too under their own name,as V-P SX drives. When OMC went belly up Volvo sold them exclusively. Sooo, if you find an OMC Cobra SX, it's also a V-P SX. That applies ONLY to 'SX' type drives. An OMC King Cobra drive is a 'run away from it'.

My 1997 Four Winns is a conglomeration of V-P and OMC name tags- the drives are tagged as V-P SX, the engines are OMC Cobra 4.3's, and my throttle/shift control is labeled with the OMC brand. Drive and transom assembly serial numbers are V-P, engine MODEL is V-P, engine serial numbers are OMC... but it's all the same stuff and I buy parts through V-P suppliers.

Last year I needed a fuel pump. Called the local V-P parts guy. He looked and said he had 2 of the same- one had a V-P part number, the other OMC. He told me the OMC was about $10.00 cheaper so he'd sell me that one. When I arrived and he pulled it off the shelf, the OMC part was in a V-P box!

The kicker with this particular boat is the engine- it's Ford and you don't want one.

Ok, just to square a few things away. The SX drive is all Volvo inside, it's identical to all the stuff in the 93 and earlier Volvo Penta drives.

The joint venture started in 93, but the first SX model was in 94.

OMC and Volvo did have some identical parts, and yes there was different pricing on some.

OMC and Volvo also had a different numbering system for model and serial numbers. An OMC serial number started with a T and was followed by numbers. Volvo used ten numbers, no T at the beginning.
The model numbers are also different, no FL or FI for Ford engines in OMC numbers, only Volvo used those letters. BUT, OMC did put the decals of FL or Fi on the the flame arrestor covers on the OMC version...... Also confusing.
Of course OMC also had 3 completely different types of drives called the "King Cobra" Not only the 93 and earlier OMC only version with a cone clutch, but also the OMC with a dog clutch they stuck on some 460 Fords (Volvo never used the 460 BTW) and the SX version cone clutch.

As far as Ford goes, Volvo gave them up after the NC models in 96. No Fords in the LK model line in 97.

 

[tazrig]

Re: 1995 four winns horizon 190-GOOD/BAD

The issue here isn't the drive. Apparently you just made it under the wire for being able to get parts for it with out too much trouble as it was made within the years of a joint venture between Volvo and OMC. The problem is the engine. A Ford 302 marine motor hasn't been made since circa 1995. Getting parts is going to be hard and expensive at best. The freeze plugs are blown out on the motor. I think everyone here is saying the same thing. Go on to the next boat. You are looking at nothing but problems with this MOTOR. Nothing else matters. You could have a great sea trial. The drive could be perfect. The boat could be in superior shape. The price could be unbeatable. Bottom line... You do not want this motor. It is a deal breaker. You will be sorry if you buy it. Walk away. There are so many other deals out there for you. I understand you wanting to find a reason to make this one work, but we're telling you, you will be sorry if you do.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: 1995 four winns horizon 190-GOOD/BAD

...Bottom line... You do not want this motor. It is a deal breaker. You will be sorry if you buy it. Walk away. There are so many other deals out there for you. I understand you wanting to find a reason to make this one work, but we're telling you, you will be sorry if you do.

Yep.

 

[vipertblck]

Re: 1995 four winns horizon 190-GOOD/BAD

walked from this thing, still for sale but i dont wanna regret it even if he did take the 3000 offer. guess ill keep searching!