1995 200 Johnson Venom needle valves

[DannyMc]

Lol. Here, hold my beer.

 

[Faztbullet]

The factory manual plainly states that engine must be in water, in gear and unthethered and that how I adjust my customers...

 

[daselbee]

I re-read your post above...about the white condensation....
That is totally normal when running it on a humid day without the air silencer installed.
But the white drip from the incoming fuel line....uhhhh....not so much.
It COULD just be condensation, and probably is, but it got me thinking about the fuel quality.

Is this fresh fuel, and are you sure you don't have water in it?

You could drain the carbs by removing the bowl drain screws (front bottom) catching the fuel. Let it sit to see if water separates out.

Water in the fuel will definitely cause bogging.

 

[Faztbullet]

If its got enough water in fuel to cause bogging it wont idle as idle passages would be effected....

 

[daselbee]

Yep....agree. Easy check, but unlikely to be the actual issue.

 

[DannyMc]

Ok, todays report: I did not have time to get timing light yet and so I haven't checked timing.
The fuel is fresh fuel.
set all screws out to 7 rounds(yest and idled great in tub)
installed new water separator filter
cleaned fuel filter
added Fuel Medic to fuel ( local Johnson/Evinrude dealer said its the best they have found).
Went to lake this morning and it started as normal holding in primer solenoid until steady idle. Quickstart shut off and it idled lower than normal about 800 rpms. hit reverse and gave it some gas and it died. fired back up and let it idle for maybe a minute and backed off the trailer. Ran it to the bank and left it running while I went to park. It was still running when I got back to it which it never did before. Low idle but still running. Backed up and took off. My bog had went to a very slight sputter. I went to WOT then slowed to stop putting it in neutral and taking off again. Every time it was just a slight sputter and it took off. I did this about 4 times then started fishing. fished about 2hrs and fired it up. It spit and sputtered for a sec so I pushed primer and started idling good until quickstart shut off then back to the low idle. I went to take off and my bog was back. I tried to about 3 or 4 times and it bogged each time. Revved it up and put it in gear and it bogged. I pushed the primer as the last time it bogged and it instantly took off. I am not sure if it just caught up at the same time I pushed it or the primer helped but it was instant. I then ran to WOT and stopped. It was then back to just a small sputter and it took off. I tried 2 more times and both times it sputtered for just a half sec and took off. Headed back to ramp and parked. I went to get my truck and backed in. fired boat up and started on trailer and bogged loading up. I idled it up for a few seconds and tried again and it bogged. It ran all the way up on the 3rd try.
I plan on getting a timing light on my way to work today. I will check timing tomorrow and do the 7/16" spark test. I will probably also drain carbs and see if any water separates from the fuel. I have also ordered a service manual to help with getting to idle set correctly. Is there a procedure on which carb to start on? Also I said previously that the #5 screw was screwed in about an eight of an inch more than the others. It was actually #1 and it was in 6 rounds like the others. This screw is longer than the rest and goes in about 1/8" farther than the rest when screwed in all the way. Is that normal or is it the wrong screw? Thanks again.
DannyMc

 

[Faztbullet]

What failed causing the rebuild? What was replaced/repaired? What is compression? What is primary timing set at? Is roller missing on throttle shaft?

 

[DannyMc]

This is the second rebuild on this motor. A piece of a sleeve broke off(I think) and the piston smashed it into the plug. It was knocking like crazy on the way back to the ramp. The man that rebuilt it said it got pretty hot and probably quit oiling. It is well known locally that he is the best in this area. He does all the local boring and does it for the local Johnson/Evinrude dealer as well so I feel pretty confident in the rebuild. It was a complete rebuild bored .030 over i believe. I will check timing in the morning. The roller is there and touching but the arm that rides against it has a little play in it. I can move it to where it has more than the allowed .005 gap.

 

[Faztbullet]

I doubt it had the cooling mod done to block...Most likely a ring locating pin came out of piston and broke a port in sleeve causing failure.On the bogging issue check timing and jetting. If you plug the intermediate jets with toothpicks and it planes out its too lean then look at the gaskets/pocket on the throttle bodies and side of carbs. Also make sure you have the new hardened bolts in upper and lower bearing retainers.

 

[DannyMc]

Well I drained carbs and water was there. Not much but after setting in a bowl i saw it. Flushed lines and pumped fresh fuel through pump and caught it in a bowl and no water after setting so that should not be a problem again. #1 failed 7/16" spark test. Swapped coils with 3 and then 3 failed so that coil is weak. I closed the gap slightly and got a spark so its still working. Idle timing is 9ATDC assuming my indicator is in the correct position. I pushed and pulled on the black tube and was able to get it to about 8atdc just by that. I didnt want to adjust on anything not knowing the correct procedure. It started idling better when it was close to 8. Is there only one adjustment being the screw and jam nut on the end of the tube?

 

[DannyMc]

After looking at the timing adjustment and seeing how simple it is I unscrewed the adjusting screw until it was just over 4 atdc. The idle speed increased as I adjusted. It now idles around 1100 rpms on muffs. Is that too high? It sounded great. I hope I can take it for a test tomorrow(with toothpicks). Thanks again.
DannyMc

 

[daselbee]

Now we are getting somewhere. Leave it at 4 atdc, get it in the water as Fazt says, adjust mixture screws as lean as possible (in makes it lean, out makes it rich), and adj the timing to get it to about 750 in gear in the water.....

Just a warning...it may not play right. You might have to fudge to get it right for your particular motor. They all don't behave exactly like the book says.

If you get it too lean, it might start lean sneezing. Just open the screws up 1/2 turn...all of them equally....and re-assess. It will take you a while, so plan to have enough time to get it right. If you get it too rich, it will likely drip unburned fuel on the driveway when you get home.

If everything is like it should be, timing should be right at 4 ATDC, and the idle screws should be at or around 6 turns out...maybe 5-1/2.

Remember, you never use the linkages to "prop the carb butterflies open" to get the right idle. All butterflies must be closed for proper idle.

 

[DannyMc]

This is great news. I hope to give a good report tomorrow. I really appreciate both of you for your help.

 

[DannyMc]

Its better than it was. I never got the bog completely out. I guess my motor doesn't like to play nice. I did not adjust the timing to get the idle down. It idles around 900 in gear. After about an hr of twisting on the carbs I decided to let it set and fish for a while and let us both cool down. After about an hr and a half it fired right up and had just a small hesitation and took off. I went to load it on the trailer and as I idled forward the idle dropped to around 700 rpms and when I went to run it up it bogged and died. On my third try I held in the primer solenoid and it ran right up. I will drain carbs again and make sure I got all the water out. Should I have got the idle down first or adjust on carbs first or does just back and forth?

 

[daselbee]

You see....when you hit the key to add primer gas, it didn't bog. I swear I think you still have fuel delivery problems.

I am going to suggest something that some will think weird.

You have the throttle bodies clean...the tiny holes are open so that you can see light thru them clearly? We will have to accept that as fact.
The tiniest hole in that calibration pocket is about .005" in diameter. I will measure it and post the size.

But, the brass idle pickup tubes that extend into the carb bowls.....are those clean too?

That is the source of the fuel for the idle and midrange operation of the carbs. Here is what I do. The tubes are very small, and they taper at the top.
You can spray carb cleaner in there, see it come out in the side labyrinth passages behind that metal plate. But that way doesn't tell you if they are totally clear...just that some carb cleaner can get thru. I always put my mouth on those tubes and suck air thru them. I do this because you can feel the air flow with your tongue, and you can judge and compare that feeling from carb to carb.

I am serious... If you blow on the tube, (try it), you cannot really tell how much air is flowing. The tubes are too small. But incoming air you can feel.

I use wire welding tip wires to get those tubes clean. I even had to pull one tube out of the plastic body to get it cleared up.

With this lousy gas we have, and some owners' tendency to run their boats once every 4 months, those tubes clog easily.

If you have any doubt, I would take a look again at those pickup tubes.

 

[DannyMc]

The holes in the throttle bodies are clean. I used a flashlight when cleaning them. I did not pay that much attention to the tubes. I blew air through them thinking they were clear. I will pull them off again and check them out. Thanks again.

 

[DannyMc]

What should my timing mark be set on at TDC?

 

[daselbee]

I don't understand your question. Timing is done with engine running, and a timing light is shined on the flywheel and pointer. You read the timing off the flywheel.
There IS a TDC mark, along with BTDC and ATDC marks.
Timing light is attached to #1 plug wire.

 

[DannyMc]

To see if my indicator is set properly. When #1 piston is at tdc what should the pointer point to on the fly wheel?

 

[daselbee]

Oh. Set the #1 piston to TDC. It is not as easy as it sounds due to the fact that the piston stops going up, but the crank keeps rotating through that maximum throw position, and then the piston starts going down. You have to account for that dwell time when the piston is stopped, but the crank can still move.
There is a specific procedure for that....

Once you are at physical TDC with #1 piston, set the pointer on the TDC mark on the flywheel.