1994 Four Winns Horizon 215 5.8L EFI OMC

[Scott Danforth]

the core plugs should be brass.

if they are rusted, then at some point the block may have been replaced with an automotive motor

 

[platinumedge]

So here's something interesting I uncovered today: I had removed the low-pressure fuel pump to check the inlet screens for pieces of paint. This was something that the "Man Cave Mechanic" mentioned: that Volvo painted the inside of fuel pumps in the 90's, and now that we're using ethanol as a fuel additive, the paint is corroding and clogging the screens inside certain fuel pumps. Anyway, I didn't see any blockage in the screen(s) so I put it back together and tried running it WITHOUT connecting the OUTGOING fuel line. I wanted to see if it would draw any fuel; and it didn't. I'm testing this by merely turning the key to ON and listening to the pump run for about 2 seconds. Anyway, I removed the pump completely and turned the key to ON, and still heard a pump running for about 2 seconds?! Turns out the low-pressure fuel pump isn't working at all. :grumpy:At least from an audible perspective. There's some other device running for a couple of seconds??

This low-pressure pump doesn't appear to be serviceable so I was looking for it online. My boat (in the Title) is 58FACPMDA, and the LP fuel pump number is 3854902, from the Evinrude site that Lou C graciously provided. I couldn't find it in iBoats, but did find it on Amazon. Before I purchase it on Amazon (providing you guys think Amazon is a reasonable place to purchase these types of engine parts?), I guess I should verify that it's getting voltage when I turn the key on, then maybe give it a little tap or two, eh?

Any other recommendations regarding the low-pressure fuel pump? For example, there is a red circuit breaker-type button attached to the LP fuel pump assembly. Do these often fail? Or cause issues?

Thanks, Gentlemen.

-- Jeff

 

[alldodge]

Volvo painted the inside of fuel pumps in the 90's

This was an issue with Merc gen 3 cool fuel modules, VP didn't use them so no issue. The Gen 2 cool fuel did not have the issue. Not your issue, but to clarify, I contacted Merc last month for this same question on another forum. They replied with

The inside of the gen 3 cool fuel modules were always coated and still are today. There is a lot of misinformation on the internet. In about 2015 we came out with a new top cap which is anodized and is resistant to today's fuel additives.
Thanks,
MerCruiser Consumer Support

Gen 3 cool fuel module

should verify that it's getting voltage when I turn the key on,

Yes, and it could be your hearing is the HP pump running

 

[platinumedge]

Thanks, AllDodge. I did notice that the screen on the LP pump seemed very clean. And, I think you're right: I'm hearing the HP pump towards the rear of the engine. (Didn't know that would energize at the same time, but that makes sense since the Schrader valve on the HP side always has some pressure when I open it.)

I completely removed the LP pump and all connections, except the power. I had someone turn the key to ON while I held the pump - I could hear and feel it energize, but not spinning (assuming it spins?). Like I said, it does NOT appear to be serviceable. But, since I don't have anything to lose I'm going to see if either end of it comes apart. I also need to check the other electrical attachments; some sort of relay and the "circuit breaker" (which is obviously working since the pump energizes).

Any issues with purchasing a replacement from Amazon?

 

[alldodge]

In most cases there is one relay which energizes both fuel pumps. Even when Merc added a boost pump above the fuel filter for the Gen 2 cool fuel, it just had a cable which connected the 2 pumps off the same connection

If you do get it apart, not sure I would want to use it going back together. If its not sealed correctly, gas gets into the motor winding and something can happen. It might be cheaper then you think if we can get the part number. might be the same as the Airtex E11003

 

[platinumedge]

Yahoo - it finally started!!! :usa: I want to thank each of you who assisted and contributed along the way; it was an interesting and challenging exercise, but I DO know that there is much, much more to come. I truly appreciate how much time you guys spent in researching things and helping with specifics. I now feel like I have a "real boat" and can begin actually investing in it. Up until now, the only money I spent on the boat (other than the initial investment) was about $150 for the starter (not to mention the dozens of back-breaking hours I put in).

I still have to drain the fuel tank, check on the steering, see why the tilt/trim isn't working, check on the raw water intakes, see if the propeller will turn, etc...

I will go back to the to some of the iBoats bulletin boards and read what are the next steps to getting this boat water-ready. I'm expecting it to be another 4-6 weeks and a couple grand of parts, tools, service companies, etc.

Wishing you all a fantastic end to the weekend! It will be for me, as I get to finally open that $200+ bottle of cognac I bought several weeks ago. It was to be opened either the day the engine started, OR the day I sold it! Ha!

Cheers All

 

[alldodge]

Great news, but
How did you get the fuel to the HP pump, what was the fix?

 

[platinumedge]

I pulled the LP pump and wired it directly to a separate, stand-alone battery that I have. (I had already checked the voltage at the connector to verify it was 12 volts.) I just kept touching the connectors many, many times, while switching them, i.e., forcing the pump motor to try to spin either way. Finally it broke loose and started spinning. I was inclined to do additional testing but decided to just reinstall everything. Once I did that, as soon as I turned the key to ON I could see it sucking fuel up into the LP pump. I did that 9 times until the sound changed, then turned the ignition and she lit right up!

I let it run for about 10-12 seconds, then put it in neutral and revved the engine slightly. It turned a bit faster (indicating that the throttle is working) but then died. I tried turning it over about 3 more times, but it wouldn't start anymore. There's no muffs on it, and several of the water hoses are still disconnected, so I'm guessing there a sensor somewhere that won't let it start when it gets warm?? But it sounded good, not as loud as I had expected; and idled smoothly for several seconds.

I'm sure it is a good idea to replace that LP pump soon. It has the part number stamped on the casing, which is different than the part number I found on the Evinrude page.

 

[alldodge]

OK that helps a bunch. The motor has not run in some time, so I would guess that some rust or other crud was hanging up the pump from turning. So doing the off/on several times managed to get it past that bit of crud, and now has flushed it out. This makes since to me at least, and thanks

 

[Lou C]

Think about looking at your raw water impeller, and feed water to the lower unit via the muffs, for further testing...
and
CONGRATS!

 

[platinumedge]

Some owner's handbooks recommend against the use of higher octane rated fuels. They say it actually reduces the fuel efficiency of the engine. (I read this in a Lexus Owner's Handbook once.) I'd like to run some more fuel through the engine over the next few days (basically start it once in awhile).

A couple quick questions:

• Are there any compelling reasons to use a fuel with an octane rating higher than 87, in my engine?
• Something AllDodge said in his last post, "that bit of crud, and now has flushed it out" made me wonder where that "crud" might have gone. I was going to purchase a fuel additive this evening and introduce it into the gas can to help clean out the fuel system and injectors. Any thoughts/recommendations?
• I realize that the primary purpose of using muffs is to keep the engine from overheating. Are you guys aware of any reason(s) I shouldn't run this motor for 20-30 seconds every once in awhile, WITHOUT muffs.
• How do you look up "muffs" online, to purchase them, i.e., what are they really called?

Thanks!

-- Jeff

 

[alldodge]

In most cases higher octane does nothing more then empty your wallet faster. It can reduce the motors efficiency because it burns slower. If the ECM (like mine) it can cause the motor to retard timing because it could not test the knock sensor. My ECM test for the knock sensor operation on first throttle up. It advances the timing for a millisecond and if it does not get a response from the knock sensor it retards timing.

The bit of crud can be very small but can still get caught in the screen on each injector. What ever kept the pump from turning is somewhere and may or may not ever cause an issue. The pump may file it away so slow that it does go out the injector. Just guessing, but also do not believe there is a mechanic in a can. Adding an additive to clean away stuff can also send more stuff toward the injectors

Never run the motor with the raw water pump impeller in place. The impeller will burn up in a few seconds being dry. If you want to run the motor every so often, remove the impeller from the pump during the winter. Muffs are these





How installed

 

[platinumedge]

Thank you, AllDodge (again!).

I, too, "do not believe there is a mechanic in a can," but there are some additives that can help break down certain unwanted compounds; I put a couple of ounces into 3 or 4 gallons of fuel. However, I'm still not getting ignition??! The engine is turning and fuel is being pulled into the LP pump. I doubt the ignition system would have failed, but I will pull a couple plugs to see if they're firing. Otherwise I have to believe that there is some blockage in the fuel system. I will check the Schrader valves (both low and high) to see if I'm getting pressure/fuel. Seems troubling that it would just not start after running nicely a couple of days ago. Note that it DID stall once I began to throttle up (in neutral); don't know if that has any bearing.

I had figured that the raw water pump impeller (being rubber) would be subject to a lot of friction/abrasions if it spun too long without lubrication/water. I have NOT re-installed my water pump, so that's not an issue at this point. I assume one can purchase muffs online, but I don't know exactly what they're really called, in other words, what name would you use to find this item? Or does one have to go to a boat store?

 

[Horigan]

Motor flusher.

 

[platinumedge]

Disregard the question about the muffs - I was able to locate them online.

 

[platinumedge]

I also just noticed that it appears there are 6 freeze plug ports on this engine: 3 on each side. The one I referred to in an earlier post "...freeze plugs (port side, middle) was VERY rusted, and had a big sign of rust dripping down to the bottom of the crankcase," seems to NOT have a brass freeze plug in it?? Nor does the starboard-aft freeze plug port. I can feel quite a bit of rust inside both of these ports, while the other 4 look "normal," i.e., they have smooth, painted inserts, presumably brass freeze plugs.

I'm guessing that the 2 missing freeze plugs (if they are, in fact, missing) fell out at some point and were never replaced. Should I just poke out all this rust, purchase a set of freeze plugs and install them? Are they just tamped in? Or is there an install kit?

Cheers!

P.S. Surprised how cheap muffs are!

 

[alldodge]

Yes they are cheap

If you can get the the freeze (core) plugs easy enough, use a screw drive on the top or bottom and smack them in with a hammer. Doing the top or bottom usually causes them to rotate, then grab with pliers to remove. Take some sand paper and clean up the edges.

Get a set of brass or stainless steel ones, some aviation sealer and a socket that just fits the inside of the plug. Use a short extension or deep well socket and tap the new plugs back in

 

[platinumedge]

That sounds very much like what I expected, with regard to removing/installing the freeze plugs - shouldn't be a problem.

New Issue (like THAT never happens!): As you may recall, the engine started up quickly once the fuel flow problem was identified and resolved. It ran for 15 seconds or so, until I throttled up a bit (the RPM's did increase) and then it died. I have tried several times to restart, but to no avail. This evening I pulled a plug to make sure it was still getting spark, and it was.

When I tried starting it tonight, it started rev'ing slower and slower, and finally stopped. I took the battery in and had it tested and they said it was in good shape (brand new) and fully charged. I'm thinking this could be something that someone else may have experienced?? I guess the worst case would be that one of the main bearings, or piston rings, has come loose, and is causing the engine to slowly "seize." I was planning on pulling most, if not all, of the plugs and seeing if the engine will spin freely (using the starter). I do not see any pressure in either of the Schrader valves when I push them in.

This is a good one for me! I definitely like a challenge, especially a mechanical one. But before I begin exploring how to remove the engine: HAS ANYONE HAD THIS TYPE OF THING HAPPEN? It started and ran fairly smoothly, then died. Now a fully charged battery is having trouble getting the engine to turn over. I welcome any/all suggestions and ideas.

Waiting to hear...

Best,

-- Jeff

 

[froggy1150]

Get a pressure Guage and put on fuel rail. Pressure drop = rpm drop = new fuel pumps $$$$

 

[alldodge]

Now a fully charged battery is having trouble getting the engine to turn over.

This can be corrosion, bad connection, starter or engine seize.

Crank the motor a bit and then feel the temp of the battery cables and starter. If anything is hot, then this can indicate some resistance. If something is getting hot, look for bad connection or corrosion

With all the plugs out you should be able rotate the motor by hand. It can be a bit hard, but should be able to grab the pulley and belt and rotate motor.

So far as fuel and no pressure, the pumps are either not running or not getting fuel.