1993 Sears Gamefisher Running for about 1 or 2 minutes then dies.

callious

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I have a new to me 93 Gamefisher that runs and dies after 2 minutes then seems to not want to start until it cools off for a few minutes. I have bought the Carb rebuild kit and rebuilt it along with the Fuel Pump kit. I appear to have spark although maybe the coil is weak? Anyone seen this issue before and have some thoughts?
 

brim_buster

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Its made by Force and I had a 15hp but never had problems with it. If it quits running check for spark. You can google how to OHM the coils to see if they are bad. Add an in-line filter to it to see if your not getting fuel. Could be a number of things. What size is the motor?
 

callious

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Its made by Force and I had a 15hp but never had problems with it. If it quits running check for spark. You can google how to OHM the coils to see if they are bad. Add an in-line filter to it to see if your not getting fuel. Could be a number of things. What size is the motor?
Hi, thanks for the quick reply. I was thinking of doing this as far as the inline fuel filter goes. Its a 9.9hp. I am thinking spark as well because sometimes it shuts down and I can't restart it but other times it restarts then dies again after couple seconds. I have taken the carb apart several times and checked the needle valve and float and throughly cleaned it only to get the same issue.
 

callious

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Update:

I took the Flywheel off and tested the coils. They are both reading 3.1 OHMS exactly. I am not sure what the specs are supposed to be so I don't know if this is causing the issue. I was planning on putting the Flywheel back on and replacing the Plugs to try that out. Also, I noticed that inside the Carb I cant seem to remove the Main jet nozzle. That could be causing the issue if the nozzle is not pulling the fuel through the system correctly.. I am thinking of also removing the Reed Valves to check those as well. Do you have any other suggestions on this?
 

callious

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Check your fuel tank for adequate venting.....
I just bought some starting fluid and sprayed directly to rule out the fuel system and it didn't make a change. I was also pulling the spark plugs to check for spark and I do see spark. The problem is that when I pulled the plugs out and was turning over the engine to test the spark I felt the engine get a little tougher to pull. I then put the plug back in and started the engine and it ran for about 15 seconds then shut off. I sprayed the starter fluid in again and it would not run. I am puzzled at this. I am not sure if I am getting intermittent spark or not. Not sure what else would cause this to happen. Now the engine just won't start. I pull and it spins and spins but nothing happens. I know the engine is getting fuel and I see spark when pulling the plug out and watching the end of the plug. Any other ideas?
 

callious

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I just bought some starting fluid and sprayed directly to rule out the fuel system and it didn't make a change. I was also pulling the spark plugs to check for spark and I do see spark. The problem is that when I pulled the plugs out and was turning over the engine to test the spark I felt the engine get a little tougher to pull. I then put the plug back in and started the engine and it ran for about 15 seconds then shut off. I sprayed the starter fluid in again and it would not run. I am puzzled at this. I am not sure if I am getting intermittent spark or not. Not sure what else would cause this to happen. Now the engine just won't start. I pull and it spins and spins but nothing happens. I know the engine is getting fuel and I see spark when pulling the plug out and watching the end of the plug. Any other ideas?
Could the timing be an issue?
 

callious

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I just bought some starting fluid and sprayed directly to rule out the fuel system and it didn't make a change. I was also pulling the spark plugs to check for spark and I do see spark. The problem is that when I pulled the plugs out and was turning over the engine to test the spark I felt the engine get a little tougher to pull. I then put the plug back in and started the engine and it ran for about 15 seconds then shut off. I sprayed the starter fluid in again and it would not run. I am puzzled at this. I am not sure if I am getting intermittent spark or not. Not sure what else would cause this to happen. Now the engine just won't start. I pull and it spins and spins but nothing happens. I know the engine is getting fuel and I see spark when pulling the plug out and watching the end of the plug. Any other ideas?
This is definitely a possibility. I went and bought some Stabil Fogging Oil and sprayed some into the cylinders then into the air opening in the Carb and started the engine while constantly feeding it the fogging oil. The engine ran while being supplied. I pulled the fuel hose feeding the Carb from the fuel pump and seen fuel being pumped from the fuel pump. It was not a lot of fuel though. So I think I have narrowed the issue down to the Carb or the fuel tank and possibly lines.
 

callious

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Does anyone know of a Carb that will fit on these engines? The OEM is not available anywhere that I can find.
 

brim_buster

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Update:

I took the Flywheel off and tested the coils. They are both reading 3.1 OHMS exactly. I am not sure what the specs are supposed to be so I don't know if this is causing the issue. I was planning on putting the Flywheel back on and replacing the Plugs to try that out. Also, I noticed that inside the Carb I cant seem to remove the Main jet nozzle. That could be causing the issue if the nozzle is not pulling the fuel through the system correctly.. I am thinking of also removing the Reed Valves to check those as well. Do you have any other suggestions on this?
That main jet nozzle is fixed doesnt come out. If fuel is the issue did the plugs look really wet? Could be flooded or not getting enough.
1607380417007.png
The coil resistance chart is in the manual. Here is what i saw. The manual has all the details you should need to troubleshoot this. Does it have points? Does it have condensers that need to be checked? Or does it have a trigger? Without seeing under your flywheel im shooting in the dark. Is the float set to specs in the carb? Did the reed assy. look OK?
 

callious

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That main jet nozzle is fixed doesnt come out. If fuel is the issue did the plugs look really wet? Could be flooded or not getting enough.
View attachment 330100
The coil resistance chart is in the manual. Here is what i saw. The manual has all the details you should need to troubleshoot this. Does it have points? Does it have condensers that need to be checked? Or does it have a trigger? Without seeing under your flywheel im shooting in the dark. Is the float set to specs in the carb? Did the reed assy. look OK?
Thanks for letting me know this! I was not able to check the reeds as I would have to remove the lower unit and more things to pull the engine off as I cant get to the bottom two bolts to take the Reed Valve cover off. Under the flywheel is just a magnet that spins and passes by the 2 coils mounted opposite of each other. When passing they create the spark that goes to the plugs. The plugs were wet indicating flooding. I have since been able to start the engine using fogging oil sprayed into the cylinders then into the air inlet on the carb. I noticed in the fuel line that the connector that connects the fuel line to the engine I can hear hissing indicating an air leak at that spot and for this reason I am going to bypass this and attempt to try again. As for the needle valve I am not sure what adjusting can be done?
 

brim_buster

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The main fuel nozzle is not fixed on that carb. Manual says to remove with slotted screw driver. Your float drop is shown in pic at 5/16 of an inch. Section 4 of the manual takes you through the steps to adjust, clean, service the carb. Like I noted earlier, the service manual is priceless when it comes to working on outboards. Has everything you need to know
 

callious

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The main fuel nozzle is not fixed on that carb. Manual says to remove with slotted screw driver. Your float drop is shown in pic at 5/16 of an inch. Section 4 of the manual takes you through the steps to adjust, clean, service the carb. Like I noted earlier, the service manual is priceless when it comes to working on outboards. Has everything you need to know
Do you have a copy of the service manual? PDF format?
 

callious

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Ok, so I learned some things.
1. The Carb appears to be working correctly.
2. I noticed the Fuel Tank is pressurized to the point that fuel is pushing so hard on the needle valve that its going right past it and causing the carb to continue to just flow gas into the engine and out of the air intake. This will obviously not allow the engine to run.
3. I have a newer style fuel tank that has the manual vent to release pressure. Since this is the case I do not know how to keep enough pressure in the lines to allow the fuel pump to pump the correct amount of fuel into the carb as to not build up too much pressure to push past the needle valve.
4. My thoughts are I can not really test the carb the way the fuel tank is not working right now.
%. Is there a way I can add an electric fuel pump with low enough pressure to get the fuel system working correctly?
 

brim_buster

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you shouldnt have to. If there is pressure then its not venting properly.. Why make this harder than it is. I hope your not using a pressurized tank. Your unit has a fuel pump. What your saying really doesnt make sense even if you pump a primer ball till its hard it wont do that. Do you have a picture you can post of your setup. Motor, tank and fuel line? Those are the easiest motors to get running. Im missing something or your doing something wrong.
 

callious

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you shouldnt have to. If there is pressure then its not venting properly.. Why make this harder than it is. I hope your not using a pressurized tank. Your unit has a fuel pump. What your saying really doesnt make sense even if you pump a primer ball till its hard it wont do that. Do you have a picture you can post of your setup. Motor, tank and fuel line? Those are the easiest motors to get running. Im missing something or your doing something wrong.
I will get some pictures and post them. I am working now though so will be later in the evening.
 

callious

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I will get some pictures and post them. I am working now though so will be later in the evening.
Sorry for not getting pictures. I found the issue with this engine. Its a hard issue to pin point but I did. The issue is with the Carb Needle Seat not sealing all the way and allowing fuel to bypass and eventually flood the engine. I have tested the carb by connecting the fuel lines to the carb while its off the motor and plugging the needle seat with my finger. This stopped the flow of fuel to the bowl. Once I cleaned the needle seat the needle valve was able to close properly. I had to polish it with a q-tip attached to my drill then added metal polish to the end of q-tip. This allowed the smooth operation of the needle valve to seat properly in the seat. Thanks for all the assistance on this.
 

brim_buster

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I would of bought a carb kit right off the bat. Thats just me. Glad you figured it out.
 

callious

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I would of bought a carb kit right off the bat. Thats just me. Glad you figured it out.
So after all this and winter I just pulled it back out and same problem. I think I need a new carb. Does anyone know of a replacement carb for this motor?
 
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