1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

Agree with Jerry: Pistons are already .030 over. Although .040 pistons are available, factory does not recommend going more than .030 over. Try a light honing and see what happens.

----Personally, I would buy a three stone hone at Sears, hone each cylinder with the piston at bottom dead center, clean out the cylinders really well before honing the next one, and try to run it after all three are done. She might surprise you.

 

[Osage76]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

I will give it shot, thanks for the advice. BTW how can you tell .0030? Also based on the pics, are you able to determine the severity of damage?

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

Because they look like aftermarket pistons and they are marked similar to Wiseco pistons. In one photo it shows quite clearly .030 stamped in the top of the baffle.

Difficult to tell the extent of the damage from the photos. If you can feel deep scoring with your fingernail, it is probably severe. If your nail just rides over them witout catching, a honing may clean them up. If most of the damage is light, one relatively deep scratch may not affect compression too much. Unless damage is so severe or so negligible that Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder can see it, photos can be misleading.

Your finger is more sensitive than you realize. While you can't actually measure, you can certainly tell degree of scoring --mild, moderate, severe.

 

[Osage76]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

Frank, I was looking at sears website for a cylinder hone. Can you tell me the diffrence between a 29 dollar and a 200 dollar??

 

[notsunkyet]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

alot of the cheaper ones comes with one set of stones and is setup fpr most applications.. not the greatest but will get the job done .. the high dollar ones have multiple stones made a little better but honestly unless you rebuildig engines for a career dont watse the money.... when you use it BE SURE TO LUBE THE CYLINERS WITH AN OIL!!!!!! i use trans fluid. stick your finger in the bottle and smear the walls a couple times is plenty.... Also your only trying to break and smooth the damage not open your cyliner walls to fit a 454 big block piston. chuck the hone in your cordless and use consistant and gradual strokes dont get excited! if you do the rings you will remove too much and loose ring seal and your screwed!
once you see smooth scratched walls .STOP got to the next one it isnt hard to do and doesnt take that long.....

 

[john from md]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

I agree with the trans oil, it is a good lube for honing.

As for the hone, try Harborfreight.com as well. You don't need an expensive one as you only want to knock the edges off of the rough spots. Don't spend money on something you will probably only use once.

John

 

[Osage76]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

I lost my book. Can anyone tell me the tourqe specs for the head gasket?

 

[john from md]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

Serial numbers Below OE138600, 225 inch pounds.

Serial number OE138600 and up 120 inch pounds and an additional turn 90*.

In both cases, make sure there is oil under the head of each bolt and apply anti sieze compound to the treads.

John

 

[Osage76]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

So to translate that to foot pounds I divide by 12 right????

The good news:
I replaced head gasket, torqed bolts, rplaced water pump (shredded of course) and gaskets.

Bad news,
Compression check:

75
100
100

tried to start and it cranks but wont run... since i am already .030 over im guessing a new powerhead??? Suggestions??

 

[john from md]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

To check the fuel pump, all you have to do is remove the hose going to the carb and rotate the engine. If fuel comes out, the fuel pump is at least partially working and the engine should start if you have spark. Check to see if you circuit breaker popped when it overheated. I don't know where it is on that engine but on the earlier engines, it is located in the area near the rectifier.

With compression numbers like you got, I wouldn't expect too much out of that engine.

Did you hone the cylinders?

John

 

[Osage76]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

I did hone the cylinders. not too much just enough to smooth them over...

Any suggestions?? I am guessing that the only thing left to do is a new powerhead????.... 1700.00

In that event I may just look at a new engine / boat.

 

[john from md]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

With the economy being what it is, there are many boat/motor combinations that you can get for what it will cost to overhaul your engine IF it can be overhauled. Since it has oversize pistons already, there is the chance that once it is disassembled, you may not be able to do anything with it.

Good luck with whatever direction you choose to go.

John

 

[Osage76]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

Agree with Jerry: Pistons are already .030 over. Although .040 pistons are available, factory does not recommend going more than .030 over. Try a light honing and see what happens.

----Personally, I would buy a three stone hone at Sears, hone each cylinder with the piston at bottom dead center, clean out the cylinders really well before honing the next one, and try to run it after all three are done. She might surprise you.

So I did replace the main head gasket and water pump and I did hone the cylinders and the compressiion is now
75
100
100

The engine cranks then stalls. I removed the head again and re honed the top cylinder. Then I noticed somthing the head when removed actually has another gasket and comes apart in 2 pieces.. nAlso the clymer manual specifically says the top cylinder will have lower compression than the other 2... So I have 4 questions:
1) Would it make a diffrence for me to replace this gasket as well?

2) Would it help also to replace the exhaust port gaskets?

3) IF all else fails can I just replace the rings wiothout new pistons or boring?

4) The sticker on the engine mount is faded and I can not read the serial numbers is there a data plate elsewhere on the engine? There were some numbers stamped in the block; 5 2 92 by the #1 cylinder and 692 on top of the block.. any one know what these mean?

 

[Osage76]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

Got her running. Put deep creep on cylinder heads and retourqed bolts, then put seafoam in tank will let cool and retourq then do another compression check... Wish me luck!

 

[john from md]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

You really should take it out and run it for a while before retorquing the bolts. Also, deep creep or seafoam gets diluted when mixed in the fuel tank and won't remove carbon like it does when following a decarbonizing routine.

Adding it to the tank may or may not help to form less carbon. The jury is still out on that one.

Hope it works out.

John

 

[Osage76]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

You really should take it out and run it for a while before retorquing the bolts. Also, deep creep or seafoam gets diluted when mixed in the fuel tank and won't remove carbon like it does when following a decarbonizing routine.

Adding it to the tank may or may not help to form less carbon. The jury is still out on that one.

Hope it works out.

John

I sprayed the deep creep on the heads and poured half the seafoam in a one gallon can and ran it about half empty, shutting off and redrafting every 10 minutes. Then I reconnected the main which has about 8 gallons in it and poured the remainder of the seafoam and one gallon can in the main tank... It sure does smoke!

 

[Osage76]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

You guys are amazing!!!

I ran the motor yesterday and did sea foam and deep creep. Then today I retourqed and checked compression, results are as follows;

115
115
115
I do need a new exhaust gasket set as the bolts there were weeping a bit.

Still not up to a "new" motor but I am please with the results!!!

Thanks again all!

 

[john from md]

Re: 1990 Force 90hp ran dry, overheat and stalled...

Now your cooking!

Be careful when taking the exhaust plate off, those bolts break easily.

Enjoy,

John