1989 Force 85hp - red hot ground screw on ground wire, slow starter crank

[Jlesinski]

I have this 1989 85hp force on a stand. It will only crank slowly while the plugs are in. With the plugs out it moves freely by hand and cranks fast. I also noticed that the screw which holds the wire junction strip in gets red hot while cranking! Since it is one the stand I have jumper cables from a working battery to solenoid input and grounded ro case. It doesn’t actually start yet.

To troubleshoot I have:

Removed lower unit to make sure it is not adding resistance (though plugs being removed seems to make it work fine)

Tested power through to the starter. It does not seem to drop significantly.

Pulled solenoid and black ground wire and cleaned them up.

Tried another battery from a working vehicle and charged/ verified original battery.

Pulled starter apart and visually inspected it. It has a couple grooves in the armature which I think are from wires breaking off. Cleaned up and put back in. Same results.


There only seems to be a small ground which runs from the solenoid to a screw by the solenoid in a mounting bracket and then to the wireing junction.

I also tried moving my jumper cable to other spots on the case to make sure I had a good connection.

I am thinking the starter may be shot. I am going to try another one. I also think I may need to replace the ground wire and run a dedicated ground to the battery just in case my jumper cable is somehow bad.

Any other thoughts? I am sure I will have more questions once I get this solved!

Thanks for all of your help and expertise.

Jim

 

[Jiggz]

Usually, when a connection gets hot it is because it has poor connection (resistance). Try cleaning both mating surfaces with sandpaper until shiny clean and then using dielectric grease, apply sparingly between connections ( this is dielectric grease which is more for protection from oxidation than providing conduction).

This is especially critical with the negative cable that is connected to the engine block.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Jumper cables aren't the best to use.
Most jumpers are only a 10g wire sometimes even a 12g and that's no where near heavy enough.
Get the right cables.
The stock cables are a 4g.

Also if the compression is off, the motor turns over hard and can cause the problem.

Sent you a PM.

 

[Jlesinski]

Can someone tell me where the negative battery cable should be connected on the case? Or perhaps post a picture? I can pull the cables from my working 50hp force for a test.

 

[Jiggz]

Usually, it is on the port side of the block just below the starter unit.

 

[BoostedTimmy]

On my 85 it is where Jiggz has said. There should be a area of bare metal (no paint) where it attaches. I can get a picture this weekend if you need it.

 

[jerryjerry05]

On the intake behind the starter is a 5/16(?) hole.
That's where it connects.

 

[Jlesinski]

Thanks! I found the bolt behind the starter, used a battery cable and it cranks like crazy now! Finally I can start troubleshooting other issues since its actually working on the stand I made.

I’ll post any other questions in new posts.

Thanks!
Jim

 

[jerryjerry05]

How about a pic of the stand?

Before you do any more, do a compression test.
No reason to spend a lot of $ on a bad block.

 

[Jlesinski]

I can't seem to add more photos because I have reached some sort of upload limit, so I posted images to my google account here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/k4usCLq6NHpx7RcbA

I built the stand so I can move the motor around and test it with my old Ferguson Tractor and 3 point forks.

Now that I have the motor cranking like it should, I was able to test compression the right way and all 3 cylinders are at about 120psi (also in google pics).

I used a spark tester and it seems that all 3 plug wires are producing a nice blue spark! That's exciting because the guy I bought it from for $200 said he couldn't get spark on Cylinder 1. I had some brand new plugs from my 50HP Force which happen to be the same, so I put those in.

Next steps are to get Fuel hooked up and see if I can get it to fire up. If not, then continue troubleshooting until I have it running well!

I plan to rebuild the fuel pump, replace the impeller, change out the old black fuel lines, and clean the carbs before swapping the 50HP Force which is currently on my boat with this 85HP Force. I think the steering controls will all switch over nicely for it as they look the same.

Thanks for all your support.
Jim

 

[jerryjerry05]

If you have spark and compression??
Then you should be able to run.

Timing is the third thing needed.
Check for TDC
That shows if the flywheel key has sheared..

 

[Jlesinski]

Top Dead Center seems dead on for the single mark on the flywheel. The motor had an eyelet welded on to a nut when I bought it (to lift the motor), and I swapped that back to the original nut on the flywheel. I checked for the key then and it seems to be in good order.

My hold up right now is that I need to take the fuel tank and line off the boat to test and I haven't had a chance to do that yet since I wanted to take the boat out and we had a grad party to go to. With 3 kids and twins graduating this year, I have my hands pretty full this summer.

I am hopeful that everything is in order to run and I plan to pull the tank off to see if it will run this week. I want to do all the other maintenance items before I put it on the boat, even if that means it is on a stand until next summer. I have the working 50HP so no hurry really.

 

[Jlesinski]

OK Folks I had a chance to hook up the Fuel Tank and it fired right up. Here are some videos of it running and my Father in Law playing with the idle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA4KO-G11xM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9-6dTMBdk4

I feel like I got a pretty good buy for $200!

 

[jerryjerry05]

Just make sure the air screws 3 are set at 1 turn out.
The factory decided that's where they should be set.

Once i's on a boat and in the water?? and in gear.
Then you can fine tune it if it doesn't idle right.
My twin 88/85's ran great at the factory setting.

BUT!! some don't/won't idle right unless they are farther out.
One of my customers his needed 3 turns out??