1988 Four Winns Candia 180 floor, stringer(probably) and transom project

[ksatkuna]

Well, although I'm a few hours into this project, I thought I would try to post here to show progress and to get advice along the way.



I have already removed the motor and internal items like the seats, most of the carpet, etc.

It's looking like I'm going to have to remove the cap to get to the entire floor. My first question is will I have any issues with hull warping, etc if I have the cap removed and the stringers/frames removed at the same time? Thanks!

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1988 Four Winns Candia 180 floor, stringer(probably) and transom project

You could. Take some measurements at multiple points for future reference. Make a Good support dolly to set the hull on and the hull should maintain it's shape pretty well.

 

[ksatkuna]

Re: 1988 Four Winns Candia 180 floor, stringer(probably) and transom project

Ok, today I'm going to give an update with the steps I've done so far along with some pictures.

I am very much a novice at boat restoration, but I got alot of great information from an older book called 'Runabout Renovation. How to Find and Fix Up an Old Fiberglass Speedboat' by Jim Anderson. What it lacks in descriptive pictures, it makes up for in descriptive verbiage for each basic piece of the renovation.

My basic steps so far:

1. Removed all captains chairs, seats, and loose carpet. This included removing basic support pieces that were screwed into the floor, etc.
2. Removed glove box console.
3. Partially removed steering console and labeled all wires, cables, etc from console location. I also created diagrams of the wire layout for various systems including gauges, throttle box, bilge pump, switches, etc. Pain in the ***.
4. Removed all hoses, cables from outboard. This included battery, oil input hoses, steering linkage and throttle cables)
5. Constructed outboard motor stand (used general plans from another thread here, but had to modify due to the size of my 150hp outboard).
6. Using engine hoist I rented, removed outboard and re-mounted on my boat stand.\
7. Removed rub rail by removing insert and then the dozens and dozens of screws.
8. Removed the screws to the cap and loosened the cap. This process took a decent amount of time to get it lose all the way around. I used a small pry bar and CAREFULLY wiggled the cap lose from the hull until I could lift it slightly.
7. Constructed simple block and tackle pulley system from my garage ceiling.
8. Removed cap from hull. I moved the boat to the second spot in my garage and lowered the cap down on 4 saw horses. To support the cap fully, I built up some boards under the bow seats.
9. Removed all carpet and cut away the cup holder section that was glassed onto the hull about 5" off the floor.
10. At this point, I am taking various measurements and making simple diagrams of the floor layout. My next step is going to build up a support frame around the top of the hull (1x3 board) and run some larger straps around the entire hull to keep the rigidity when I start removing the floor, etc. (This is a suggestion from the book I referenced at the beginning of this post).

 

[rickryder]

Re: 1988 Four Winns Candia 180 floor, stringer(probably) and transom project

Welcome to iboats!
Looks like your on the right path with your resto project.
You will find loads of great info here and plenty of people that will help you along the way!
Good luck with that fine looking boat.

 

[ksatkuna]

Re: 1988 Four Winns Candia 180 floor, stringer(probably) and transom project

Thank you! This group is very knowledgeable and I will surely be leaning on many of you as I go through this.

Welcome to iboats!
Looks like your on the right path with your resto project.
You will find loads of great info here and plenty of people that will help you along the way!
Good luck with that fine looking boat.

 

[ksatkuna]

Re: 1988 Four Winns Candia 180 floor, stringer(probably) and transom project

Ok... I have removed most of the floor, gas tank and much of the old flotation foam. The supports up to the mid point are completely rotten and it looks like the stringers are rotten at the support/stringer joint location up to the mid point on the boat. The transom also seems to be rotting at the motor mount point in the middle. So, my next set of questions for all you experts:

1. Do I have to replace the entire stringer or can I cut clean and put new from the cut to the transom?
2. Since I have to replace floors, stringers and transom, what order is easiest? Should I remove the transom and stringers at the same time then replace the transom...then stringers/supports...then floor?

Thanks!

 

[rickryder]

Re: 1988 Four Winns Candia 180 floor, stringer(probably) and transom project

Pictures will help us a great deal and be able to see what your working with. Most people do all the demo and prep work before starting any glass layup.

To answer your first question You can splice a stringer with either a scarf joint or a sister splice.

You are correct on the order... Transom,stringers and bulkheads then the deck/sole.

 

[ksatkuna]

Re: 1988 Four Winns Candia 180 floor, stringer(probably) and transom project

I will post update pictures shortly.

My next questions are about resin and fiberglass needed for transom, stringers and floors. There are so many options and I am really looking for specific products people are using for these three areas.

Epoxy or polyester resin? I DO want to potentially gelcoat over the floor (add snap in carpet) and I've heard that I need polyester resin to do that. I've also read that epoxy is necessary when attaching the stringers and glassing over them. ONe guy I talked to said that I need Laminating resin first..then finish with "finishing resin"

When do I use cloth, vs mat, etc? What material (type, ounces, etc) do I use on the transom...the stringers...the floors.

If someone has done this project, as a starting point, i would appreciate the exact products they used and quantity estimates. Thanks!!!!

 

[steveclv]

Re: 1988 Four Winns Candia 180 floor, stringer(probably) and transom project

Most people use Polyester for the main construction as it's cheaper but it is also brittle and derives it's strength from the mat and cloth - so when using poly you must use mat. When you use epoxy you can float layers of raw epoxy afterwards to create a smooth surface.

You can apply epoxy to poly but not poly to epoxy. Likewise you cannot apply gelcoat to epoxy but I had great results on my deck with a layer of poly+CSM and then a layer of cloth+epoxy and followed by two coats of epoxy. Really please with it.

The difference between the two types of poly is the wax - wax allows the poly resin to fully cure but must be removed (200 grit and then acetone) before laying a second layer. Poly without wax never fully hardens and remains tacky which is great for a second layer to be applied to.

Hard for me to estimate the required gallonage as your job is much bigger than mine - my deck used 2 gallons of poly and 1 gallon of epoxy - but I was generous and probably laid more than was strictly necessary but heck, I was having a great time with it

 

[ksatkuna]

Re: 1988 Four Winns Candia 180 floor, stringer(probably) and transom project

Thanks for the great info! Do you have a particular brand of poly/epoxy that you recommend and a place to buy? I was hoping to do some work this weekend so I had contacted a local marine place they suggested I contact a local body shop or parts store.

Thoughts? Thanks!

 

[rickryder]

Re: 1988 Four Winns Candia 180 floor, stringer(probably) and transom project

I buy all my resin and glass from www.uscomposites.com
I use 435 std layup poly resin, 1.5 oz CSM for layers between and to cover the transom and tab the stringers,1708 biax cloth to cover transom and stringers. The resin you get from a body shop/auto store/Home Depot etc will have wax in it and you will have to sand between coats.....not really a good choice for what you want to do....

As for how much resin.... 1.5oz csm 1 gallon will wet out approx. 4.2 yards
1708 biax 1 gallon wets out 4 sq. yds.
You will need 1 layer of csm on the bottom of your deck and one layer for the top of deck,one layer of 1708 on top of that with a layer of 6-7 1/2 oz cloth over that.

stringers csm to tab in, 2 layers of 1708 Get enough 1708 to go 6" on the hull up and over the stringer,6" on hull for first layer. The second layer 8-10" on each side..... you want to lap more over the first layer to help transfer the load on the hull.

You also want to overlap your transom 6" on the sides and bottom.

Read my resto thread it has everything listed there also

 

[steveclv]

Re: 1988 Four Winns Candia 180 floor, stringer(probably) and transom project

I agree with Rick except that I wouldn't use CSM on the underneath of the deck - I'd 'paint' it with the thin epoxy instead. The epoxy penetrates the outside of the wood and waterproofs it completely. The cured epoxy is also flexible. It's just a personal thing - no right or wrong way.

I get mine from http://www.aeromarineproducts.com in San Diego as they are closer than Florida to me.

 

[ksatkuna]

Re: 1988 Four Winns Candia 180 floor, stringer(probably) and transom project

What kind of plywood are you guys using? PT, marine grade or other? I've read that AC grade (is still made with exterior glue) works fine as well.

Do I need PT or marine grade?
Can I use AC (nice quality) and treat first?
If I cannot apply poly to epoxy, I'm struggling with how to seal... just do CSM with poly on both sides/edges? If I use thin epoxy to pain the bottom, can I use csm/poly on the top so I can eventually gelcoat/paint?

You guys are awesome! I can't tell you how much I appreciate your advice!
Ken

I agree with Rick except that I wouldn't use CSM on the underneath of the deck - I'd 'paint' it with the thin epoxy instead. The epoxy penetrates the outside of the wood and waterproofs it completely. The cured epoxy is also flexible. It's just a personal thing - no right or wrong way.

I get mine from http://www.aeromarineproducts.com in San Diego as they are closer than Florida to me.

 

[rickryder]

Re: 1988 Four Winns Candia 180 floor, stringer(probably) and transom project

Go to your local lumber yard and ask for underlayment plywood....The ply I get from my supplier has no voids in it and the glue is waterproof.

Like I said before csm on the underside csm and 1708 on the topside.... a bulletproof deck

If you are going to gel the deck do not add wax in your last resin coat if you want the gel to stick

 

[GracieBell1]

Re: 1988 Four Winns Candia 180 floor, stringer(probably) and transom project

Hello Ken,
Welcome to Iboats. You will receive a great deal of excelent advise. With my project I have been on a budget. So I use CSM and Woven Roving. It ends up being cheaper than 1708 and is a little easier to work with. But it requires two steps instead of one where as the 1708 is both csm and woven in one piece of fiberglass. I also found a fiberglass supplier about 20 minutes from my home and that is what they sell, cheap. I also use NAPA laminating resin. It is high quality and works great for several layers. Then I just roll a thin layer of finishing resin to get a full cure. You can use the 3m resin (homedepot-lowes) for this step. Just about anything you do will be better than the way it came from the factor. I have a four winns and they make great boats, but in following the advice from people on this site I was told by FW I was rebuilding my Liberator into a tank. Oh well I have a young family so better a tank than not. The one big thing I found is that when using polyester resin you have to be conservative on the how much you use. A resin rich laminate will be very brittle. Also you must sand, sand then sand again. Prep work is everything. Good luck.