1988 Force 50HP cranking with only one CD coil pack OK?

[sraley1053]

OK, I know I have one bad coil pack since it is melted on the back, wires burned, etc. I would like to test the other components with the single coil pack that I have which appears to be good, one cylinder at a time. Install on one cylinder and crank and then switch to the other cylinder. My concern and question is it safe (for the other electrical components) to crank the engine in order to test for fire with only one coil installed?

Any advice is greatly approeciated! Thanks.

 

[Jiggz]

Re: 1988 Force 50HP cranking with only one CD coil pack OK?

If you just plan on checking for sparks (meaning the plugs are out) or with a inline spark tester I do not see any problem. Of course, there will be problem if you ran it long enough to score the non-firing cylinder. You can also spray WD-40 to lube it while testing.

 

[sraley1053]

Re: 1988 Force 50HP cranking with only one CD coil pack OK?

My plan is to test it the plugs out for spark. Just wanted to make sure the absence of the coil on the other cylinder durng the spark test would not cause any electrical problems. Thanks for the advice. I will proceed as planned and let you know. Thanks for the response!

 

[sraley1053]

Re: 1988 Force 50HP cranking with only one CD coil pack OK?

OK I am really stumped on this one. I have replaced all the electrical parts except the trigger and still no spark. I have tested ohms and AC voltage outputs and all looks good per individual part- stator, trigger. I have a brand new CDI coil pack that I am using to spark test with plugs out but still no spark on either cylinder. I have the kill wires (brown ones disconnected) and the battery connection to the rectifier disconnected for testing trying to eliminate as many unnecessary components as possible. So, new switch, new stator, new coil, no spark. The stator is the CDI type with four wires instead of 2 on the ignition side... I have the blues and yellows tied together per the installation instructions. I measure ~300volts while cranking across these. Please help! Thanks!

 

[Jiggz]

Re: 1988 Force 50HP cranking with only one CD coil pack OK?

So you have the both blue wires together and both yellow wires together from the stator and read voltage across the blue and yellow and got 300VAC? If that is correct, then you need to measure the volts output of the trigger wires between white and red and also between green and orange, see the diagram. The voltage is really low like 0.5~5Vac.

 

[sraley1053]

Re: 1988 Force 50HP cranking with only one CD coil pack OK?

My engine is a "C" model.... I tested across the green and orange trigger wires while connected to the CDI coil pack and only read .05-.08 VAC. Do I have a trigger problem? The trigger ohms at 48 on each bank. Thanks for the help!

 

[Jiggz]

Re: 1988 Force 50HP cranking with only one CD coil pack OK?

Your trigger voltage and resistance is right on the money. This tells us there is nothing wrong with the trigger system. The wiring I posted is prior to "D" model which mean it applies to your engine model. Make sure the brown wires are taped off (electrical tape), black wires are properly grounded. According to the wiring diagram, there are supposed to be no yellow wires instead it should only be blue wires going into each CD-coil modules. The other sets of wires coming out of the Stator are the charging green/yellow wires for the rectifier. So maybe the stator you have is the wrong type or maybe the blue wires on the new stator only connects to ground while the yellow connects to the CD-Coil module. You might want to ask CDI about this.

 

[sraley1053]

Re: 1988 Force 50HP cranking with only one CD coil pack OK?

Thanks Jiggz I appreciate your help on this. I am attaching the installation sheet from CDI for the after market stator that I have so you can check if I am understanding the hookup correctly. Also.... I want to make sure you read my earlier outputs from the trigger correctly.... I only see .05 volts... yes not a typo (not .5 volts) from the trigger. My suspicion was that this is 10x less than the minimum .5 volts is a problem. No?

Installation instructions and diagram.

 

[Jiggz]

Re: 1988 Force 50HP cranking with only one CD coil pack OK?

Darn, I must have read that wrong. NO, a .05V is nowhere near what the trigger is supposed to be putting out. Remove the flywheel and do a visual on the trigger for broken insulation and also under the flywheel to make sure all the magnets are in there. I'll check the installation instruction.

 

[sraley1053]

Re: 1988 Force 50HP cranking with only one CD coil pack OK?

The trigger looks good, magnet looks good (does appear that at some point the magnet has touched the stator but not touching now). Also, as I have been reading more I am not sure I am getting an accurate reading... I was just using the AC setting on my digital multimeter. Looks like I need a DVA meter to read this. Correct?

Also... as I was just re-reading the installation document (above) I noticed a discrepancy for the first time. The upper section (text) says use the Brown-blue on the #1 coil.... the table below says opposite! I have been using the table instructions. Should I reverse it and try it?

 

[Jiggz]

Re: 1988 Force 50HP cranking with only one CD coil pack OK?

No you do not need a DVA yet for the stator and the trigger although it will be better. With your digital multimeter if you set it on hold (reads and holds the highest reading) it will be better. You will need to attached the meter (alligator clips) with each set of trigger wires and watch the meter while a buddy is cranking it over. To make it easier you can even remove the plugs just to see that voltage from the trigger. As for the stator looks like you have it connected right and with 300 VAC (a little too high you might want to verify this). If the trigger volt doesn't come up it might be time to look into a new one. Or you can also buy a DVA adapter and to read the voltage output of the coils but if the voltage is out there you should be seeing sparks by now. Trigger cost around $50.

 

[Jiggz]

Re: 1988 Force 50HP cranking with only one CD coil pack OK?

I think with new stator and CDI it will be better if you connect everything back together including the brown wires and regulator and check for sparks. If there's still no sparks, then start the troubleshooting again starting with the regulator. I'm a little skeptical about the ignition ckt on how a completed ckt from the stator is completed with one (yellow) wire connect to on CD-Coil unit and then the other (blue) wire to the other CD-Coil unit.

I wonder if the two "M" contacts in the ignition switch are normally open and closes when you turn it on? (on standard switches, these contacts are normally "close" and then opens when turned on) Can you verify this for me by disconnecting one of the wires from one of the "M" contacts and then reading resistance between them with the switch in "off" position and also in the on position?

 

[sraley1053]

Re: 1988 Force 50HP cranking with only one CD coil pack OK?

I did not get a chance to recheck the switch.... but in my first thread on this forum I ended up replacing the switch so it is new. I think it was the culprit that started all the problems. You can see the complete post at:
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=547123

But when I look back at that post I never received an answer to this question after installing the new switch which is relevant to your question-

"All seems to test out with the meter as you describe EXCEPT... where you say "The two "M" terminals should have continuity with the switch off and infinite resistance with the switch on. " I measure .432 K-ohm with the switch on and all connections (switch installed). Is this an acceptable value? Or should it be higher?"

Does this mean anything to you? I will recheck this tonight as well.

Also... I hooked everything fully up, complete per the wiring diagram, and still no spark on either cylinder.

 

[Jiggz]

Re: 1988 Force 50HP cranking with only one CD coil pack OK?

You need to measure resistance on the "M" contacts with one wire disconnected for accuracy. Do you have that stop switch as shown in the diagram? Can you disconnect one of the wires from the "M' contacts and read resistance in normal position and also when pushed. Thanks. There is also another topic with the same engine except his problem is the motor cannot be shut off! LOL And I believe it's the same problem which is the ignition switch. For some reasons these "C" models have different ignition wiring, un-grounded "M" contacts. And I understand both of you have new ignition switch and I'm thinking it could be the wrong type. Just speculating for now until you take measurements.

 

[sraley1053]

Re: 1988 Force 50HP cranking with only one CD coil pack OK?

I do have the lanyard stop switch. I will retest the M terminals ASAP. Are there different switch configurations available? I only saw one type of push-to-choke when I purchased.

 

[Jiggz]

Re: 1988 Force 50HP cranking with only one CD coil pack OK?

Do you still have the old switch? I hope you do so we can do test on it. If you do can you post a pics of it?

 

[sraley1053]

Re: 1988 Force 50HP cranking with only one CD coil pack OK?

I disconnected one wire and have retested my switch. All seems correct with the ignition switch... open when in "run" and closed when in "off". However... the while testing the lanyard kill switch... when activated... it is initially (for a couple of secs) fully closed then I see a tiny 2-4 ohm resistance. Not sure if this is a problem or not.

But, for some reason, after testing the switches, and in my quest for the real problem, I remembered that I read about sometimes needing to switch the white-green and red trigger wires to get some CD coils to fire. I tried this and I now have spark. But I now also have spark on the other cylinder. So I suspect something with the switches was blocking the spark and working with them during testing caused it to open up. I may replace the lanyard switch too. What do you think?

I do not have the original switch.

 

[Jiggz]

Re: 1988 Force 50HP cranking with only one CD coil pack OK?

It is probably the kill switch. Don't replace anything yet. What you want to do is connect and test if the engine run and stops. Thanks for the ignition switch readings but then this is new switch so not really sure if its identical to the old one. Goodluck and hope it runs.

 

[sraley1053]

Re: 1988 Force 50HP cranking with only one CD coil pack OK?

I wanted to come back and share the results of my many weeks repair efforts. I am happy to report that I had my boat running in the lake today for the first time and she is running great. Firstly thanks to all who gave helpful advice in the process.
I would like to share an important factor on my troubleshooting with you though. My original question... can you test with one CD coil pack... the answer is really NO. At least on my motor, all components have to be hooked up to have any spark. I found this out through trial and error, so if I take any component out of the setup... no spark. I would be interested to hear if others have different experiences with this. But all seems well now. I replaced ignition switch, stator, both CD coil packs in the process. I think the culprit was the ignition switch which was shorting and allowing battery voltage on the ignition components which fried most of them. Anyway... thanks to all who contributed to my solution and happy boating to all!

 

[paulskelator]

Can the kill keep the #1 coil from firing