1988 60hp 2 stroke won't start Need help!

[yorkington]

I bought my first boat knowing it wasn't running, and it has the 1988 Mercury 60hp. I'm an automotive mechanic by trade so I thought I'd have no issue with this outboard, but I'm very perplexed.

Here's where I'm at and what I've tried:
All cylinders have similar compression numbers, just above 120, with a deviation of 4psi between the highest and lowest.
Spark plugs are new, new stator, and spark is good jumping at 7/16".
Have cleaned carbs and have followed the factory manual. Floats are set at level specified in manual.
Flywheel key is good and isn't moving or damaged or anything.
Can't get it to run with starting fluid, might fire once or twice, but definitely no more than that.
Using new fuel and 2 stroke oil.

I'm not sure what I'm missing here. Let me know your thoughts.

 

[brodmann]

So, you've tested and have 2 of the 3 things needed to make a 2-stroke work. You have good compression and you have good spark. We need to make sure the spark is occurring at the correct time. Remove the nut and washer on top of the fywheel, and you should be able to tell if the key is in the correct position. It's a drift key in the crank shaft. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about and what to look for.You need to work on fuel delivery. First remove the drain plugs in the bottom of the carbs and make sure fuel comes out. Pump the primer bulb and make sure fuel flows out. If you have fuel in carbs and the only thing you get is a little pop now and then when you spray carb you have to get to work on the carbs. 2 stroke carbs are very, very particular. I've attached a blow up of your carbs. You'll need to order carb kits because you have to remove and replace some plugs. #19 and #28 MUST be removed to inspect and clear out small passages that are part of the idle jet network. You also need to spend some time on #2 and #16. If you think about a big V-8 motor, there is one carburetor. This motor has 3 right? All jets, passages and everything is much much smaller than what you find in a Rochester or Holley carb. The passages under those plugs are usually cleaned by getting some stranded speaker wire or something similar and start with using just 1 or 2 strands at a time and running them through those passages. Soaking overnight in a bucked of carb cleaner is good, but you've still got to get to every single tiny passage and use a compressor to force some air through them. If you just want to hear it run, you might be able to crank it up by using the shift block-out to open up the throttle without putting it in gear. That utilizes the main jets, which are larger and probably not cloged up. If you don't know how to do this, send me a pic of your control box.

 

[brodmann]

https://www.boats.net/catalog/mercury/outboard/60hp/60hp-0a721308-up/carburetor

 

[yorkington]

So, you've tested and have 2 of the 3 things needed to make a 2-stroke work. You have good compression and you have good spark. We need to make sure the spark is occurring at the correct time. Remove the nut and washer on top of the fywheel, and you should be able to tell if the key is in the correct position. It's a drift key in the crank shaft. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about and what to look for.You need to work on fuel delivery. First remove the drain plugs in the bottom of the carbs and make sure fuel comes out. Pump the primer bulb and make sure fuel flows out. If you have fuel in carbs and the only thing you get is a little pop now and then when you spray carb you have to get to work on the carbs. 2 stroke carbs are very, very particular. I've attached a blow up of your carbs. You'll need to order carb kits because you have to remove and replace some plugs. #19 and #28 MUST be removed to inspect and clear out small passages that are part of the idle jet network. You also need to spend some time on #2 and #16. If you think about a big V-8 motor, there is one carburetor. This motor has 3 right? All jets, passages and everything is much much smaller than what you find in a Rochester or Holley carb. The passages under those plugs are usually cleaned by getting some stranded speaker wire or something similar and start with using just 1 or 2 strands at a time and running them through those passages. Soaking overnight in a bucked of carb cleaner is good, but you've still got to get to every single tiny passage and use a compressor to force some air through them. If you just want to hear it run, you might be able to crank it up by using the shift block-out to open up the throttle without putting it in gear. That utilizes the main jets, which are larger and probably not cloged up. If you don't know how to do this, send me a pic of your control box.

Thanks for the response. Its got 2 carbs, and I've cleaned both. I assume that the idle circuit doesn't matter when the carb is at full throttle... I just want to hear it run, so I tried that and nothing. Throttle closed, nothing. I can get it to fire off one cylinder once, then nothing. I checked the splines, and the keyed spline and everything seem fine. If I had to guess, I'd guess it's firing the wrong cylinder at the wrong time. I had it backfire through the carb once while spraying starting fluid, but thats the most excitement I have gotten.

I really don't know where to go from here. If I had to make a guess, it's almost like my timing is "180 out" but without a camshaft I'm not sure how that'd even be.... I'm really at a loss.

 

[Mark ofs]

Have you checked the fuel pump yet?, When we started using my father-in-laws boat, (1986 merc) it ran for a bit then the fuel pump rubber started to disengrate. Ran find after the fuel pump rebuild.

 

[brodmann]

It would run for a while just off the fuel in carb bowls. You mentioned timing being off 180 degrees. Can you swap the plug wires? That's the same thing as turning a distributor 180 degrees. Also, since these motors don't have a camshaft and valves, behind the carbs, we have an intake and reed valves. When you turn the motor over, hold your hand over the carbs and see if it is blowing air out. That would indicate a bad reed valve and the cylinders will not be getting fuel correctly.

 

[flyingscott]

Check your flywheel key? Spark plug wires reversed?

 

[yorkington]

Have you checked the fuel pump yet?, When we started using my father-in-laws boat, (1986 merc) it ran for a bit then the fuel pump rubber started to disengrate. Ran find after the fuel pump rebuild.

New fuel tank, and hand pump. Spark plugs seem to be wet so I assume it's getting fuel. All I can think of is that it isn't getting spark at the right time.

 

[yorkington]

It would run for a while just off the fuel in carb bowls. You mentioned timing being off 180 degrees. Can you swap the plug wires? That's the same thing as turning a distributor 180 degrees. Also, since these motors don't have a camshaft and valves, behind the carbs, we have an intake and reed valves. When you turn the motor over, hold your hand over the carbs and see if it is blowing air out. That would indicate a bad reed valve and the cylinders will not be getting fuel correctly.

Will try the reed valve thing when I get home. I've switched plug wires around, but there doesn't seem to be any difference. I know it has a firing order of 1-3-2 but I'm not sure which coil is actually firing at what point.

 

[yorkington]

Check your flywheel key? Spark plug wires reversed?

So there's a splined section that the flywheel bolts to, those spline keys are good and lined up. I don't know if there's a woodruff key underneath that, but I do know the crank has no play when rotating the flywheel. Going to check that tonight.

I've mixed the spark plug wires and know it's firing order is 1-3-2 but I'm not sure which plug is firing at what point, so I'm not sure which ones I need to switch around. Kind of just guessing.

 

[Willyclay]

Spark plugs seem to be wet so I assume it's getting fuel.

My experience with one of those motors was it "flooded" very easily. Good luck!

 

[Chris1956]

Gee, First pull the spark plugs and remove the prop. Now set the top cylinder to TDC using a screwdriver int eh spark plug hole. The timing pointer should read very close to TDC on the timing decal. If not, the outer flywheel is installed incorrectly.

Next, stick a timing light on the #1 spark plug wire, and crank her over, with the carbs ready to open, but still closed. She should spark in the 0-9* ATDC range, at that throttle setting. She should spark at about 21* BTDC at full throttle.

The usual rule is that if she don't fire and run a bit when using ether, you have no spark. In your case, let's check to see if she is close in timing.

 

[yorkington]

Gee, First pull the spark plugs and remove the prop. Now set the top cylinder to TDC using a screwdriver int eh spark plug hole. The timing pointer should read very close to TDC on the timing decal. If not, the outer flywheel is installed incorrectly.

Thanks for the response! I am missing the timing pointer, but from what I can find, it goes with the starter bolt. I got that lined up fairly close I believe, but still nothing. I'm assuming it might be the reed valves, but I honestly don't know. I think I have to take the motor off of the lower unit to even get to them.

It would run for a while just off the fuel in carb bowls. You mentioned timing being off 180 degrees. Can you swap the plug wires? That's the same thing as turning a distributor 180 degrees. Also, since these motors don't have a camshaft and valves, behind the carbs, we have an intake and reed valves. When you turn the motor over, hold your hand over the carbs and see if it is blowing air out. That would indicate a bad reed valve and the cylinders will not be getting fuel correctly.

I tried to place my hand over it last night, was hard to tell if it was blowing or sucking, but I believe just maybe the bottom carb was blowing out. Nowhere near 100% sure though. Would this stop it from running at all? And any fixes without taking it apart and replacing them?

 

[QBhoy]

Hi. Maybe I’ve missed the obvious being mentioned…likely already known or covered previously…but are you opening up the lever throttle and pushing in the ignition key to choke, when turning her over ?

 

[yorkington]

Hi. Maybe I’ve missed the obvious being mentioned…likely already known or covered previously…but are you opening up the lever throttle and pushing in the ignition key to choke, when turning her over ?

I forgot to mention, but yes I am, sorry. Should've mentioned that!

 

[QBhoy]

I forgot to mention, but yes I am, sorry. Should've mentioned that!

No worries. Thought I’d check

 

[Chris1956]

You can make a timing pointer. Something that bolts on and points to the flywheel and has some adjustment. A piece of sheet metal with a scribe mark works.

Reed valves almost never go bad. If you truly have spark, get the timing close and she will run for many seconds on ether.

 

[Mark ofs]

New fuel tank, and hand pump. Spark plugs seem to be wet so I assume it's getting fuel. All I can think of is that it isn't getting spark at the right time.

I assume you mean the fuel pump mounted on the outboard...not the hand pump off the fuel tank.

 

[yorkington]

I assume you mean the fuel pump mounted on the outboard...not the hand pump off the fuel tank.

Honestly, haven't checked the one on the side of the outboard. Assumed since I Had fuel in the bowls it was working. Even without it working wouldn't it run at least for a few seconds?

 

[yorkington]

You can make a timing pointer. Something that bolts on and points to the flywheel and has some adjustment. A piece of sheet metal with a scribe mark works.

Reed valves almost never go bad. If you truly have spark, get the timing close and she will run for many seconds on ether.

As long as it bolts in the same place right?