1987 Four Winns Horizon 170 Boat flooring repair HELP!!

[iFourWinns1987]

Hello Everyone,

My name is Felipe. I am new to this community as well as new to owning a boat. My father bought a 1987 Four Winns Horizon 170 (inboard) boat today. The guy we bought it off of was the second owner and he, originally bought the boat off a friend. The boat seems to be in pretty good shape. The guy pointed out few little problems but no biggie; however, there is one issue. He explained to us that the boat did have some wood rotting under the carpet. Excited to own our first boat we immediately started working on the boat as soon as we got home. We took all the seats, fuel tank, and carpeting (pretty much everywhere he pointed out possible wood rotting). Also, he couldn't tell how much wood rot there was. We did come to find out that from a first glance it didn't seem like much was rotted. Just on the edges of the fuel tank storage area and the small storage area. (Again!! my father and I are completely new to boats and our opinions don't mean much at this point.) We did start to take out some of the rotted wood, but we immediately stopped when we came across a foam. My dad tried using his screw driver to see if it was wood (it seemed to look like light colored wood). He made a couple holes trying to figure it out. So we immediately stopped there and decided to get experienced help.

Therefore I have attached some pictures pointing out the issues. Our questions are: Should we just look to replace the rotted wood with new wood? or should we just start from scratch?

I have done some research but it is still not clear enough to us. We don't know what to do so a step by step explanation would be greatly appreciated in regards to where do we go from this point on.

Thanks a lot,

Felipe

View attachment 146282

View attachment 146283

View attachment 146284

View attachment 146285

View attachment 146286

 

[coolbri70]

Re: 1987 Four Winns Horizon 170 Boat flooring repair HELP!!

if the foam is wet its gotta come out any wood thats rotted too along with the surface of fibreglass that was touching it, if not the rot will just spread to your new wood

 

[rickryder]

Re: 1987 Four Winns Horizon 170 Boat flooring repair HELP!!

Welcome to iboats and The Dry Dock!

I just restored my Four Winns 210 Horizion last year..... I too only had a few rot spots...

First thing is that you have wet foam that will need to be removed.....You will most likely find the stringers that support the deck will have rot also.... Four Winns didn't do a great job at the factory sealing them up:facepalm:

I would suggest you read my resto link below in my signature and you will see what may lie ahead for you... It has the entire rebuild documented with pictures.

Check it out and then let us know if your ready to undertake the project....we will be happy to guide you along with your rebuild

Good Luck and we hope your stay in dry Dock will be a short one

RR

 

[iFourWinns1987]

Re: 1987 Four Winns Horizon 170 Boat flooring repair HELP!!

rickryder and coolbri70,

First of all thanks for replying so quickly! I apreciate all the helpful info.

Second, what a great project RR! Such a great job !! The pictures helped a ton in understanding most of the steps you took. My father and I took the time to read, and re-read your thread a couple times in order to get a better understanding. We would definitely appreciate if you could guide us throughout this project if possible. Tomorrow after work we will get to working on the boat. First things first. We have to completely start from scratch and take all the rotted wood and wet foam.

I have been doing some research and I was wondering about all the products you used. I am consistently reffering to your thread. Would it be possible if you could list them if you still remember ? I seen you used plywood (i don't know for sure which type of wood exactly you used but i been searching and I read through a few such as the Marine plywood (heard its expensive) and a couple more. I did also follow along that you did get your foam for free. I was wondering if you know a good brand of waterproof expanding foams for boats? In the beggining of the thread I also did see two of the materials you used.


Like I said, tomorrow we will be working on the boat and as soon as we are finished taking out all the rotted wood i will follow up with pictures. As of right now I also want to start buying the products and wood in order to take the next step (hopefully this weekend) in starting to build the stringer!


Thanks,
Felipe

 

[rickryder]

Re: 1987 Four Winns Horizon 170 Boat flooring repair HELP!!

Not a problem Felipe I will help you and your Dad along. Wood for your stringers can be underlayment plywood available at most lumber yards or AraucoPly from Lowes,no need for marine ply.

Fiberglass supplies ordered from www.uscomposites.com

Where are you located?

 

[iFourWinns1987]

Re: 1987 Four Winns Horizon 170 Boat flooring repair HELP!!

Hello RR!

We really appreciate the time and effort putting in to helping us out. Before anything we are located in Lowell, Massachusetts!! In regards to the stringers of the boat we will use the AraucoPly. We are also looking to buy from the site you showed us the Fiberglass 7 1/2 oz E Glass, and the 3 to 1 Medium Epoxy Hardener. How does that sound ? Also we were wondering the amount you ordered for both the fiberglass and epoxy ? Just so we can have an idea for how much we would need to buy since we are basically undergoing the same amount of repair.

My dad had a question in regards to the stringers. As we followed along in the pictures we noticed that you first laid out the plywood for the stringers so we could have an idea of how it was set up. The following weekend you worked on applying all the materials. He is wondering if there is something you did in order to stabilize the wood. For example. If we were to build a wooden crate, we would use a nail to attach all the pieces of wood together. In this example, the nail is "like" a glue. In regards to the stringers, was there any material you used to hold it down on the boat and the connecting plywood ? or you just used the materials you mentioned in the previous post ?

As of right now we been experiencing some rain, so its a little difficult to work on taking out all the rot. We should have it all out by the end of the weekend, we should be getting some sun!!!



Much appreciated,

Felipe

 

[rickryder]

Re: 1987 Four Winns Horizon 170 Boat flooring repair HELP!!

You will want to use the standard 435 poly resin, 1.5oz csm and 1708 biax cloth.... The amount of glass and resin required will depend on what you need to replace..... We'll know that once you open it all up.

Another consideration is what kind of trailer is the boat on? Bunk or roller? It needs to be stable so the hull won't flex when the deck and stringers come out

I just tacked the plywood with a few screws to hold it together.....the glass and resin did the rest.

The stringer and bulkhead system will be spaced off the hull 1/4" and bedded in a mixture we call peanut butter.
The mixture is resin,cabosil and milled/chopped fibers found at the supplier.

Here is a link to the most info on glassing/rebuilding a boat http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=234392
It even has an index to look up certain info!
This link is also very helpful on stringer,transom and deck layout http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=384982&page=25&p=3586813#post3586813

 

[iFourWinns1987]

Re: 1987 Four Winns Horizon 170 Boat flooring repair HELP!!

Okay as of right now we have a list of all the products we are going to buy. We were able to work a little bit today in removing the rot after work.

The list is:
435 poly resin
1.5 oz csm
1708 biax cloth
Cabosil
1/4" chopped milled fibers
Pl adhesive bedding
AraucoPLY

Are we missing anything ? im just in doubt with the Acetone and this Nida bond you keep mentioning.( im assuming that is the resin if i am not mistaken).

The Acetone bottle we saw in the picture. You use that exactly for what ? and when?

In regards to cleaning out the boat. We are coming across the layers of glass that is both on the hull and the stringers. How much do we have to take out ? All the way to the hull ? because we are the point we have most of the stringers out and all the foam. So we are not sure if we take that layer of glass out all the way to the hull of if we just sand it after all the stringers and foam are out.

Is there a process of cleaning when everything is out ?


before you sat the stringers down did you first apply materials to laminate it or did you do that after it was set down ?

Also the boat is on a trailer with rollers!

I want to thank you for the time. We are completely noobs at this but with all the instructions and pictures everything are making sense as we continue to make progress on the boat. Thanks a lot for the time and patience!!

 

[rickryder]

Re: 1987 Four Winns Horizon 170 Boat flooring repair HELP!!

You will need a bunch of other stuff... First off Safety equipment for grinding.... A good respirator with OV cartridges tyvek suit goggles gloves....fiberglass dust is bad stuff!

You will also need mixing containers, a paint mixer attachment for the drill, chip brushes,small 1" dia. rollers...

Acetone....it's used to wash down the glass after grinding and just before you lay up your resin...it's a cleaner/surface prep.

Nida bond is a ceramic pourable compound......mostly used to fill transoms..... I don't think you will be needing it. I had some left over from filling my engine mount area so I used it to fillet the sides of my stringers.

Now the trailer situation.... You will need to brace up your hull with some 2x6 and 2x4 lumber... run 2x6's on their flat along the chines of the boat..thats the outer edge of the hull bottom...and 2x4's down like legs to a 2x4 along the ground.... It's like building a support wall under the boat to keep it from sagging or twisting while your removing all the support provided by the deck and stringers.....

I would do that now before you remove any more of the inside support

On the old glass subject.... I ground mine down to the hull....it doesn't need to be all removed but most of it so you have a nice smooth area to glass over. Plus when you grind the surface it will expose clean glass for the new resin to bond to....

Have you checked your transom for rot? I was lucky and mine was fine.... You will need to check yours!

OK time for me to get to work..... Lets see some pics of your progress


Here is another great thread with videos! A must read/see http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=454460

 

[iFourWinns1987]

Re: 1987 Four Winns Horizon 170 Boat flooring repair HELP!!

Hello RR,

Long day today and yesterday! We pretty much have everything out that was rotted and our boat layout pretty much look the same as your after you did all your grinding. Unfortunately we didn't take any pictures but we should have some soon!! Also our transom is in good shape! Thank God!

My dad and I were going over all the products we need to buy because we will be buying it tomorrow and since your boat looked just like ours now, we would appreciate if you could help us by letting us know the quantity and amount you personally used for each material.

Here are the materials we will be buying tomorrow

435 poly resin
1.5 oz csm
1708 biax cloth
Aerosil-Cabosil
1/4" chopped milled fibers
Pl adhesive

The quantity and amount you used for each product would be extremely helpful!!

Thanks

 

[rickryder]

Re: 1987 Four Winns Horizon 170 Boat flooring repair HELP!!

1708 15 yds
csm 10 yds
10 gallons 435 resin
5qt container of cabosil
4lb chop fiber
Pl can be bought at Lowes or HD... get the large tubes 2 of them should be a good start.

 

[iFourWinns1987]

Re: 1987 Four Winns Horizon 170 Boat flooring repair HELP!!

Hey RR,

Its been a while! We have been waiting for our supplies and all we have done is set up the stringers. We have pictures and we will set them up as soon as we get supplies and start glassing. As of right now we have one question in regards to the drain holes. You used the 3M 5200 sealer. Why did you do that and should we do same?

Thanks

 

[rickryder]

Re: 1987 Four Winns Horizon 170 Boat flooring repair HELP!!

Some of us use 5200 to seal in the limber holes in the stringers and bulkheads and others use PB mixture....either is fine.