1986 Mercruiser 470/170hp/3.7L Carb backfire, low vacuum, other weird issues

cdavy000

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With the spark plugs out and the coil wire grounded spin the engine and you will be able to get an accurate setting. If the dwell still moves and does not hold steady the distributor bushings or the centrifugal advance parts under the breaker plate could be worn out.
I also noticed that I could rotate the shaft by hand about 1/16-1/8 inch before the advance springs kicked in making it harder to turn, and the rotor arm probably had 1/8 inch play in it.
 

Scott Danforth

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I also noticed that I could rotate the shaft by hand about 1/16-1/8 inch before the advance springs kicked in making it harder to turn, and the rotor arm probably had 1/8 inch play in it.
Rotational play or side-by-side play?

NAPA has distributor bushings in stock
 

cdavy000

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Rotational play or side-by-side play?

NAPA has distributor bushings in stock
Rotational play yes, I will look into distributor bushings. I added a spoonful of oil to each cylinder and 2,3,4 all came up to 125 psi while 1 came up to 136 psi, so bad piston rings maybe?

I am trying to find where the bushing would be on my distributor on the diagram but I can’t seem to find it, I thought it might be #16 but apparently that’s a spring.
 

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Scott Danforth

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2 bushings in the housing. However if you have 0 side to side motion (use a dial indicator, could be 0.008 or less) then your bushings are not a problem
 

cdavy000

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2 bushings in the housing. However if you have 0 side to side motion (use a dial indicator, could be 0.008 or less) then your bushings are not a problem
Yeah 0 side to size play. Since the oil in cylinders helped with compression I put Marvel mystery oil in cylinders through spark plug hole to hopefully free stuck piston rings if I have them. Letting it soak for 48 hours. I also put some in fuel tank and engine oil. I plan on doing an oil change after that clears the crud out.

I’m still not sure what my next move on the erratic dwell reading is going to be though. I think I’m going to put my old condenser back in the distributor and see if it’s any better because I heard the new ones are 50/50 nowadays.
 
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Scott06

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Yeah 0 side to size play. Since the oil in cylinders helped with compression I put Marvel mystery oil in cylinders through spark plug hole to hopefully free stuck piston rings if I have them. Letting it soak for 48 hours. I also put some in fuel tank and engine oil. I plan on doing an oil change after that clears the crud out.

I’m still not sure what my next move on the erratic dwell reading is going to be though. I think I’m going to put my old condenser back in the distributor and see if it’s any better because I heard the new ones are 50/50 nowadays.
I would look at the rubbing block on dist to see if there is uneven wear. would try another set of points and condenser to see if that is why the dwell is so inconsistent. Have never seen a dwell bounce that much.
 

cdavy000

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I would look at the rubbing block on dist to see if there is uneven wear. would try another set of points and condenser to see if that is why the dwell is so inconsistent. Have never seen a dwell bounce that much.
I put my old points and condenser and no changed but instead of just cranking engine I actually started it up and checked swell at idle. That gave me a much more stable reading and I was able to adjust it to about 30.5 degrees of dwell.
 

cdavy000

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After adjusting dwell it did seem to steady my vacuum but it is a consistent bounce between 13-14” of HG at idle with a rapidly vibrating needle as well. The needle will steady completely if I increase throttle. I am able to get up to 20” of HG at idle if I increase idle rpm to about 1150 which I know is too high. I seem to still have the carb backfiring problems when flooring it at idle, or moderate acceleration under heavy load. The carb backfiring is usually worse until the engine fully warms up and I can not always induce it if I try to floor it in neutral.
 

Scott Danforth

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The carb backfiring is usually worse until the engine fully warms up and I can not always induce it if I try to floor it in neutral.
that is an indication you are running lean. adjust your choke and if needed, your idle mix.
 

cdavy000

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that is an indication you are running lean. adjust your choke and if needed, your idle mix.
I’ve tried to adjust the mixture extremely rich (like 4-5 turns) and that seems to help slightly but it doesn’t completely solve the problem. When you say adjust the choke do you mean adjust it so where it isn’t fully opened when warm? I don’t floor it when cold unless the electric choke plate has fully opened.

I also ran a smoke test for vacuum leaks and did not find any.


I posted a video of idle engine vacuum below.
 

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Scott Danforth

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I’ve tried to adjust the mixture extremely rich (like 4-5 turns) and that seems to help slightly but it doesn’t completely solve the problem.
At 4-5 turns out, the motor should not run.

Your idle circuit is probably plugged
 

Scott06

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At 4-5 turns out, the motor should not run.

Your idle circuit is probably plugged
Agreed

to OP when you turn the idle screws in and out you should hear idle quality change and get to a point where it stumbles both lean and also when really rich. If very little changes when you turn the mix screws several turns in and out, your idle circuit is plugged or there is no fuel in the bowl or both …
 

cdavy000

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At 4-5 turns out, the motor should not run.

Your idle circuit is probably plugged
It’s a brand new carb so I don’t think my idle circuits plugged and I was having this problem before I replaced it too. It is possible that the new carburetor is jetted down however, although I’m not sure if that would these problems.
 

cdavy000

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Agreed

to OP when you turn the idle screws in and out you should hear idle quality change and get to a point where it stumbles both lean and also when really rich. If very little changes when you turn the mix screws several turns in and out, your idle circuit is plugged or there is no fuel in the bowl or both …
When I turn the idle mixture screw all the way in there is definitely a stumble but it will not stall. It doesn’t seem to stumble nearly as hard when increasing fuel mixture but there’s a slight rpm decrease and stumble when I get up to 2.5 to 3 ish turns out. It’s a brand new carb so I can’t imagine idle circuit is plugged or bowl not holding fuel. The mixture screw acted the same with my old carb as well.
 

Scott Danforth

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It’s a brand new carb so I don’t think my idle circuits plugged and I was having this problem before I replaced it too. It is possible that the new carburetor is jetted down however, although I’m not sure if that would these problems.
Where did you get a new Rochester carb?

You should not be able to turn more than 2.5 turns out before the motor runs so rich your eyes water

If you bought an Amazon special (chineseum carb), I would take your original cab and rebuild it.
 

Scott Danforth

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When I turn the idle mixture screw all the way in there is definitely a stumble but it will not stall.
Something is wrong with your carb. It should start to stumble below 3/4 turn and die about the time you get less than 1/2 turn out

All the way in should shut off all fuel to the idle circuit
 

cdavy000

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Where did you get a new Rochester carb?

You should not be able to turn more than 2.5 turns out before the motor runs so rich your eyes water

If you bought an Amazon special (chineseum carb), I would take your original cab and rebuild it.
I already rebuilt my old carb and that did not my fix the problem so then yes I went with the Amazon special. Yes it most definitely runs rich when I turn it 2.5+ turns and I can smell it but I’m not able to make it stall by increasing fuel mixture.
 

cdavy000

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Something is wrong with your carb. It should start to stumble below 3/4 turn and die about the time you get less than 1/2 turn out

All the way in should shut off all fuel to the idle circuit
Yeah I can hear start stumble at about 3/4 turn but I’m able to turn it all the way in without it stalling, although it will stumble hard. It’s possible my idle rpm is too high, which is in turn creating enough vacuum to continue to suck fuel through the Venturi’s. Although I’ve adjusted it to idle at 750 in gear like it’s supposed to be.
 

Scott Danforth

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What brand of carburetor did you buy as your new one?
 
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