1986 110hp Evinrude weak spark on 1&3

[MallRat]

Will be next weekend before i can check. Should i order gaskets or can i make with gasket material?

What about spark issue? Cylinder 1&3 will not jump 7/16" gap on spark tester or strobe timing light while cranking with plugs removed. But will strobe timing light when running.

 

[racerone]

Perhaps your starter motor is kaput.-----Inspecting it is as easy as can be.---Don't rush out and get a new one without inspecting it !

 

[MallRat]

Cylinder 2&4 jump 7/16 gap while cranking.

If i take the 2-wire connector that run from stator to power pack for cylinder 1&3 and connect it to pack for 2&4 and vice versa. Then issue follows the 2-wire connector.

But i will check starter as well.

Not tring to be difficult, just want to recap what going on and tests I've done so far.

 

[racerone]

Good luck with the project.

 

[MallRat]

Thanks, I'll need it. Or maybe a BFH.

Hulk smash.

 

[MallRat]

I Ithink see the covers racerone is talking about. To be honest that is more work than I want to do right now. So I probably won't be getting much help from here on out. But I finally had some time to mess with this engine. I think I have the idle timing set correct. The RPMs are OK and it is charging the battery. I've uploaded a video of it running. Hopefully the tote was deep enough to give enough back pressure.
It's really hard to see the timing light strobe. But is is strobing on the 4* mark. The cheap RPM gauge is hopefully reading correct.

If you can't view video let me know and I'll see what going on.

​https://youtu.be/0BxvqgdrblI

Maybe will be able to take it out in a week or two and see how it runs.

 

[racerone]

Idle timing looks after itself.-------Look into it as the point where throttle plates open.------Where the timing is at nice smooth idle DOES NOT MATTER.

 

[MallRat]

Thanks for the info.

I have been so busy with work.
(Had $500 to $800 in tools stolen from company van that company not going to pay for.)
And been out of town. Just don't have time to do all the things I have to do and have time to do the things I want to do.

I thank you for your input. When I get a chance to put this POS on water, I'll tell ya how it does and go from there.

But can already tell it's acting better now than it did last year.

​​​​​

 

[racerone]

They were a fine / smooth running motor 30 years ago.-------No telling what abuse it has suffered to make it sound like what you refer to it now.

 

[MallRat]

Well finally got boat on water.
Doesn't like to idle so I need to take a day at the lake to try and adjust the idle. Guess the back pressure of the tote full of water wasn't enough. OR maybe need to change plugs. I did the sea foam shock treatment and the sea foam spray yesterday with last years plugs installed. Just to see if it would help the compression that was reported earlier in the thread roughly 85psi. I think I will run it a little more. Then shock treatment again before I change plugs or mess with idle or compression test again.

I don't know how I'm going to get the WOT timing correct or even check it. I'm kinda leery about having son drive it with me look at a timing light over a running engine on the lake. (I swim like a rock) Don't have a test tank or test prop. Not getting spark on 1&3 as stated earlier when trying to do the JR WOT timing procedure but do when running boat. Decisions decisions.

Was able to take it out for a little ride. According to phone speed app got up to 44mph don't know the RPMs. I didn't extend the tach to the dash so I just took it off during the ride. Hole shot still not what I think it should be but could be the driver.
Think I'm going to run boat as is the rest of this year and then over winter let the local mechanic give it a shot. Have to build up funds again. bought wife a car and now I'm broke. Who knows I may even find a deal on another boat and sale this one.
I have 4 as of now. A 16ft Sweet Water pontoon with a 25 Johnson that I need a throttle/shift cable for. (just bought it). A 14ft deep V 1963 AppleBy with a 7.5hp Eska and a 15ft 1960 StarCraft Jet the is nothing but a hull that needs attention and a good trailer.

What speed should I be looking at from this engine on a 1986 Jason 1570 F&S. According to the specs I have found (on a 1987 model).
The boat weights 850 lbs empty.
Just put in 10 gal of fresh fuel so I'm guessing I had 15 gal total.
I am at about 280lbs. (Yep big boy) and I'm guessing maybe another 100 (?) lbs with trolling motor and other junk. so...
850 boat
090 fuel (15 * 6lbs)
280 me
100 trolling motor + 3 12volt batteries + other junk
--------
1320 lbs more or less with a speed of 44mph does that seem right?

 

[MallRat]

​How much of the CDI checklist/troubleshooting procedure can be preformed with a multi-meter? I'll have to order the DVA adaptor.

I've downloaded the troubleshooting guide again and glanced over it. This one is the 7th edition. The other was the 5th.

In the 7th edition looks like I should be steps starting on page 47. Is that correct? The engine is a E110TLCDC.
​​​​

 

[MallRat]

Since my last post.

Ordered DVA adaptor. And compression tester. And placed a call to CDI troubleshooting hotline.

Today i disconnected (cut) kill circuit going to both powerpacks. Removed sparkplugs grounded them. Connected timing light to #1 cylinder. Cranked engine and timing light strobed.

Did compression test from 1 to 4 had 95, 97, 95, 97 on cold wet cylinders.

Tested for spark to jump 7/16 gap and no spark on #1. Then spark and then no spark on #3.

Battery had 12.5 volts when started testing. So I connected cranking battery in parallel to spare battery for 12volts and double amps. Starter pos to battery1 and starter nev to battery2. And pos to pos and nev to nev.

Had good spark on all 4 cylinders. All cylinders jumped 7/16 gap. Did Joe Reeves WOT timing. Had to move timing arm to middle hole to get 24° mark to line up.

Put carter pins back in and no spark. Now im charging batteries and will test for spark again. When I connected my charger pos to 1 battery and nev to the other. Charger said the "battery" had 64% charge 12.1 volts.

So it looks like other than me messing with idle last year. And this year. Most of my trouble throughout this thread has been weak/bad batteries.

I want to thank racerone for suggesting starter issues. Still haven't checked the starter and it may have issues.

I have yet to reconnect kill circuit to see if there is any issue there. But I'm betting there isn't. Since the issue SEEMS to be battery related.

Have to leave in a few and going to let cylinders sit for a week or so and soak in Marvin Mystery Oil to try and break up carbon buildup. On a suggestion from a guy i spoke with. Said it helped he mercury.


I do have a question. Now that the WOT is at 24° using the Joe Reeves method. Do I have to do the link n sync again?

 

[MallRat]

I reconnected the kill circuit to powerpacks. Still had good spark on all cylinders.

Put a cap full of MMO in cylinders and spun by hand.
Did this a total of three times.

Now time to commute for work Monday. At least it pays the bills.

Still new to know if i need to do link n sync again?

 

[racerone]

It has been proven time and time again that folks do not understand how important it is to have batteries and starters in good condition on these motors.-----And it cost ZIPPO / NOTHING to verify starter and battery condition !!!

 

[MallRat]

Without me doing a search. How do I check the starter?

Never thought about battery since it had enough juice to start the engine. But that is going to be replaced payday. If nothing else pops up.

 

[racerone]

Easy to take starter apart., just 3 bolts hold it on.---2 bolts hold it together.-----Take it apart and ask what to do next once it is apart.----Might have to make a simple tool from sheet metal for re-assembly.----Might even be a video on how to work on these simple starters.

 

[MallRat]

Can do. May be a week or two. Working in Grand Rapids, Michigan this week. Then vacation to Charlotte NC to see son and grandson.


I did get the DVA adaptor for meter. Haven't tested anything cause got good solid spark when I paralleled batteries. Should I go ahead and test stator for its and giggles? It did charge good when I had it running a few weeks back. And even though the engine was 4° out of time at 28° by JR WOT timing it still pushed me at 44mph down lake.

 

[MallRat]

Tested the wires according to the CDI troubleshooting doc edition 7 results are below.
There were taken today 7/3/19
I'm assuming that the brown wires are from the stator and the rest are from the timer base but not sure.

starboard side
Brown/Black to Brown/White 1.282 mOhm 85V
White/Black to Blue/White 37.5 Ohms 1.59V
White/Black to Green/White 35 Ohms 1.55V

port side
Brown to Brown/Yellow 0.616 kOhms 240V
White to Blue 34.5 Ohms 1.40 V
White to Green 35 Ohms 1.44V

All voltage reading were taken with DVA adaptor attached to multimeter.
I reattached each connector before testing the next set of wires.
Starboard side feeds spark for 1&3 cylinders.
Port side feeds spark for 2&4.

Ran boat yesterday on lake. Did compression test today all cylinders reading 100psi cold engine. Well don't know how cold cause it was 90* today and I was sweating like a priest at a little league game. Anyway I didn't start engine today. Guess the Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) did a little good.

Starter is off and will be testing armature and commutator tonight or tomorrow.


Racerone,
From the above numbers it looks to me like the Stator is shot (starboard side bad side) and needs to be replaced. Is that correct?
Should I be concern about the timer base? The Ohms looks to be in specs but the voltage is off but I'm not sure I tested correctly. Don't know the brand.
I will try and get a puller tonight to remove flywheel.

 

[MallRat]

Used this video to clean starter inners

https://youtu.be/oB-h-vZc6FY

And used this video to test starter

https://youtu.be/VXV4p3m9TwY

All tested good. Only thing I noticed was a ground brush that was wore on an angle. I guess from dust buildup not letting the spring push brush straight up.

Cleaned inside of housing and now going to stick it all back together to reinstall. Didn't see any signs of lube inside case. And videos didn't mention anything about lube on reassembly so no lube was used.

Hopefully all will be fine.

Still waiting on reply from racerone or anybody knowledgeable about the numbers posted in last post about results from CDI troubleshooting test.

 

[MallRat]

Removed flywheel looked good from top.

Then removed and looked under.