1985 Force 50 no spark and parts question.

aarivers

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Jul 17, 2012
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36
Re: 1985 Force 50 no spark and parts question.

Here's another vid of it at the lowest speed it would go without attempting to stall out.

 

Frank Acampora

Supreme Mariner
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Jan 19, 2007
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12,004
Re: 1985 Force 50 no spark and parts question.

It is difficult to see in the photos: But the carb is suspect due to the poor workmanship on the original bowl bolt repair. SO, is there a small brass tube inside the larger brass tube? This tube feeds the low speed circuit. If it is missing you will experience very difficult starting and failure to idle.

If the tube is there, did you clean it and the low speed circuit? Again, if the low speed orifices and needle are clogged or restricted, the engine will not run slow.

At the carb butterfly--not the choke plate-- you will see several small metered holes in the top of the carb casting. These are the metered idle and off-idle holes. Clean them with a soft copper wire and do not force it or you will enlarge the holes. Use a small pipe cleaner or again a soft piece of copper wire to clean the brass tube. Remove the low speed needle and clean the hole. I like to use WD40. It seems to dissolve most crud.

Oh, I forgot: You need a thin flat sealing washer both inside the bowl and outside it. Careful, too thick and the bowl rim will not seat on the cork gasket in the carb casting perimeter.

Post another photo of the needle seat area of the carb. Typically a brass seat housing screws into the carb casting. Inside this seat is a rubber needle seat and usually, a copper washer will stick inside the carb casting. Simply pull the washer out with a small hooked tool of some sort. If the carb has a pressed-in seat, you have no choice. You need to pull it out by threading in an appropriately sized screw and prying it out--damaging it beyond repair. However, if it has a pressed-in seat, the needle will usually have a rubber tip and again, usually, only the needle needs to be replaced.
 
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aarivers

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Jul 17, 2012
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36
Re: 1985 Force 50 no spark and parts question.

Well I'm pretty sure I found the issue. After cleaning the carb up again and resetting the float level, I decided to check the compression since I had borrowed a tester for another one of my projects. I came back with 120 on the lower cylinder and 60 on the top. So I guess I'll be taking the head cover off the engine to see whats going on inside there. What should I be looking for in there, I don't guess I'll be able to see any obvious ring damage unless I take the pistons out.
 

Frank Acampora

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
12,004
Re: 1985 Force 50 no spark and parts question.

Unless catastrophic damage has been done, these engines usually do not break rings. With 60 PSI compression, it is most likely stuck rings and while I consider it snake-oil, a sea Foam treatment might help. If a decarbon treatment does not help, you will find it necessary to remove the piston and manually clean the rings and grooves. I have heard that oven cleaner and heating does work but have never tried it myself
 

pnwboat

Rear Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
4,251
Re: 1985 Force 50 no spark and parts question.

Mercury Power Tune works pretty good for removing carbon deposits in the ring grooves.

I've used oven cleaner on some aluminum parts. Works great at removing carbon deposits.......also removed the surface of the aluminum too! Starting out, the surface of the aluminum was smooth and kind of shiny. Afterwards it was very dull and rough like it had been etched or coarsely sand blasted. I looked at the instructions on the can and it said not to use it on aluminum.
 

aarivers

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Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Messages
36
Re: 1985 Force 50 no spark and parts question.

So my good luck with this motor has finally run out. I guess this is a good reminder to always check compression before dumping any time or parts into an unknown motor.

Went to remove the head cover after soaking the rings in ATF did nothing to bring up the compression, and this carnage is what I found.

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And here's the lower cylinder for comparison. Looks factory fresh almost.

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It's a shame really, and I'm surprised it ran as well as it did. I haven't decided yet what I want to do. Part it out maybe and recoup some funds for a newer motor is more the direction I'm leaning. I would love to get a new fuel injected motor, but I did meet a guy the other day when I was launching the boat for the first time that said he had one of these in his shop just sitting, I may see if I can get it off him for next to nothing.

Thanks for the help guys, it's been a great learning experience.
 

oldboat1

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Apr 3, 2002
Messages
9,612
Re: 1985 Force 50 no spark and parts question.

well, we didn't mention compression either, sooo..... You are probably right. It's a parts motor -- but it's a good parts motor. If that one you mention is a sister motor, or close -- with decent compression -- it might be the way to go. I wouldn't necessarily think newer for a replacement, just condition. Those parts can be reused, or kept for another project.
 
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