1985 140 Looper 3 wire power trim issue

[roger3645]

I have a new to me 1985 140 looper model J140TLCOS. I have had the motor for about 3 yrs now and since retiring I've just got around to getting her up and running. She runs well on the engine stand but I'm having a problem with the power trim. Three wires from trim motor, black (ground), Blue (up) and green (down) .

Problem when I connect both the green wire and blue wire to the junction box and trim up or down the trim works real slow and everything heats up and begins to smoke. But if I just connect one wire (blu or grn) it works fine.

I am very weak at electrical issues.

I tried replacing the junction box with a known good box and relays. Same issue.

I noticed if I have the grn wire connected to the box and have the blue wire not connected to anything other than a volt meter and hit the down trim there is 12 volts running to the blue wire. To me this doesn't seem correct and makes me think the trim motor is getting power for up and down at the same time. But I don't know if this is normal.

I have also hooked the trim motor up directly to the battery and it will go up or down.

I am thinking there is a short somewhere in the trim motor wiring or in the motor itself.

Thanks

 

[racerone]

Black is the ground.-----You would only hook one other wire to positive.----Blue to go up or green to go down.-----You do not hook up the green and blue together for any reason whatsoever !!!!!------Smoke spells expensive $$$----Time to visit a shop.-----The 3 wire unit is not original to the 1985 models.

 

[roger3645]

I am not hooking the blu and grn wire together but just connecting each wire to where it is suppose to go in the junction box. If I connect both wires to the junction box then there is a problem.

 

[roger3645]

This is the blue and green wire connector coming from the relay junction box.

 

[roger3645]

These are the blue and green wire coming from the trim motor. The black wire has been grounded

 

[roger3645]

When I plug both the blue and green wire from the trim motor into the connector from the junction box and try to trim up or down it runs slow and everything gets hot.

 

[roger3645]

If I just connect one wire it will work just fine. In this case it will go down with no problem.

 

[Chris1956]

A three wire power trim motor uses solenoids, not relays. The three wire motor has a center winding ground. If you actually have relays, they are normally grounded, so when your three wire motor is energized, part of the winding is shorted to ground.

Go on a parts site and see what motor and solenoids/relays you are supposed to have.

You may be able to fix your issue, if you have two ground wires on each relay. One will be for the primary circuit, and one ground (heavier) will be for the secondary circuit. Disconnect the heavier ground wire on each relay, and see if the trim works properly.

 

[roger3645]

Yes...just checked... suppose to be 2 wire trim motor. Chris I'll give your fix a shot.

 

[racerone]

Post a picture of the " junction box " that you are using.-----If it has the 2 relays then it is totally the wrong set-up !!

 

[roger3645]

This is it.

 

[roger3645]

I wondered why there wasn't any place to plug the black wire into.

 

[racerone]

Thought so.------That set-up does not work with a 3 wire motor.----What a joke.-----Sorry to be so blunt !

 

[roger3645]

Can I just replace the 3 wire motor with a 2 wire motor?

 

[roger3645]

Tried disconnecting the primary ground wires on each relay and all I got was a beeping sound from the up relay.

 

[Joe Reeves]

I saw the model number (1985), however due to the electrical conflict, this question needs to be asked... is that engine a crossflow engine (2 metal carburetors)... or... a loop charged engine (4 plastic carburetors) ?

Stop playing around with that complex relay system. That relay setup came upon the scene in 1981 and obviously is supposed to be on the 1985 140hp model (yours).. however, just as obviously, someone installed the wrong (3 wire) electric motor which will not, cannot work with a relay system.

What you need is pure and simple is to wire what you have as follows... one of my cats could rig it up!

The solenoid is part #581528...

 

[Chris1956]

Roger, you will want to disconnect the ground wires on the SECONDARY relay winding, if they can be disconnected. On my Merc relays it looks to be possible. Not sure about the Johnnyrude relays set up.

 

[roger3645]

Joe found your diagram on a previous post of yours.I'll go ahead and get that solenoid. The motor is a looper with 4 plastic carbs. Chris I disconnected the thicker blk wires on each relay. I've been looking at the entire power trim unit/ manifold appears to be very similar to 1978 models.

 

[Chris1956]

After disconnecting the thicker black wires, did the unit function?

Your motor likely was a conversion to the two wire system, which is common. Either the motor was not upgraded at that time, which would be strange, or was later replaced with the older 3 wire motor. Both are probably avail aftermarket.

Solenoids are not terribly expensive, but I would think relays could be used in the 3 wire motor configuration.

 

[roger3645]

No Chris it didn't work. When I got the motor the power trim was not hooked up but the junction box with the relays was mounted on the motor. I've also found that I can't remove the complete power trim unit from the front. I'd have to pull the motor off the stand and remove the power trim from the back. I think someone replaced the original 2 wire system with the 3 wire system then painted the motor, So I am just going to get the solenoid and go from there. Paid $250 for the motor which seems to run good (on the engine stand) with 120 compression on all 4 cylinders and a good lower unit. Keeping my fingers crossed as I try to put this motor back in service. I have a project 96 Ranger R70 Sport I plan to put the motor on.