1984 Force 85HP starter will not operate - all wiring appears to be correct

[Uncle Billybob]

Hi... I have a 1984 Force 85 hp motor on a Bayliner Capri bowrider. It has been cranking up with no problems until I was hooked up recently and about to drive to the local lake. Thought I'd bump the starter to be sure the choke and starter were working. Well the choke clicked and when I tried starting it...nothing.
So I have been researching the problem and switching out parts to get the starter to actuate. I have charged the batteries - added another one and ran them in parallel to boost the amperage, I have traced the positive side through the entire starting circuit with both multimeter and test lamp - all seems correct but it still will not turn over.
I can run a hot lead from the positive battery terminal to the positive terminal on the bottom of the starter and it will fire up. But even jumping the positive terminals on the solenoid causes no reaction. I can hear and feel the solenoid reacting to the power when the key is turned. I have switched out both the starter motor and the solenoid - nothing happened when I switched one and then both parts.
Here again I used a Clymer manual to follow the positive side of the circuit and all seems correctly wired. At first I was getting a bit of a response and the starter would try to engage but now nothing.....any ideas? I love to get the boat on the water and do some fishing before it gets cold here in Atlanta. Thanks!

 

[jerryjerry05]

Take the starter apart and see if it needs a rebuild??
See the pics, this was from a working starter,
working poorly but working.

IF? you have changed the solenoid and changed the
batteries then the starter is the last thing.

I use a 12v test lite and have someone at the key.
Turn the key and see if there's power across both lugs
of the solenoid.
A solenoid can be bad right out of the box

The battery cable: check it for bulging spots and bad
connections?
Check the ground wire under the starter against the
block, sometimes the screw comes loose.

 

[The Force power]

You can get your Batteries load-tested at a shop, charging a battery (can) mean nothing
did try to jump the solenoid across? the battery cable & starter-cable

 

[puffitu]

Betting it’s a ground issue; start at battery

 

[Capn Morgan]

Hey guys .... thanks for your responses...I did install a new starter, cleaned up all electrical connections, traced the positive side from the battery, through the switch, across the solenoid and up to the starter and got a reading at all junctions. I can hear and feel the solenoid working but if I jump the two large positive posts nothing happens.
I can take a jumper cable and connect the positive lug of the battery up to the positive lug of the starer and it starts up...so I guess the connection to the ground side is formed by the starter motor being bolted to the "chassis".
I did try to install a new solenoid but the mounting holes were too small so I also tried just connecting all the wires without screwing the solenoid down to the engine and that didnt work either. Doesnt the solenoid only affect the positive side of the connection? Does a solenoid have to be isolated from the ground/engine via an isolating mount or does the internal connection isolate the positive side?
Maybe I have a bad new solenoid - if all is properly hooked up and plenty of battery power, shouldnt I be able to jump the solenoid posts and energize the starter?
I appreciate your time!

 

[jerryjerry05]

Some solenoid need to be grounded.
The Force's I've seen have the ground wire
on one of the lugs,

 

[Redbarron%%]

Every DC and most AC circuits needs to have two wires or connections, one for power and one to return that power to the source.
Often in industrial electrical troubleshooting the technicians have problems when a fault occurs in the neutral or return side of the circuit.

 

[Capn Morgan]

Thanks for the tips! I went back yesterday with a friend to try and correct the problem and I probably did more damage. I took the positive battery lead off the solenoid and touched the bottom hot lug from the opposite side of the solenoid. Got a spark and the starter motor cranked up.... but then I dropped that hot lead and immediately lots of smoke came up!
I had apparently fried the black wire that went between the negative side of the solenoid and the negative terminal on the block connector. I stripped out the burnt/melted wire/covering and replaced it with a new wire. These are the two wires that go to one side of the solenoid "trigger" screws - not the main positive power cables.
Got it all wired back up per the manual electrical diagrams and tried to start it up....no go....no solenoid click ... no nothing. So I am wondering if I also fried my rectifier - and is that even in the the starter circuit. Before I melted the wire, I did try to jump the two positive lugs on the solenoid and I got nothing. I could hear and feel it move when I turned the switch but no cranking.
I am thinking that I need to buy another solenoid and give it a shot... nothing to lose...just hope I didn't fry some other part of the ignition system.

 

[The Force power]

Thanks for the tips! I went back yesterday with a friend to try and correct the problem and I probably did more damage. I took the positive battery lead off the solenoid and touched the bottom hot lug from the opposite side of the solenoid. Got a spark and the starter motor cranked up.... but then I dropped that hot lead and immediately lots of smoke came up!
I had apparently fried the black wire that went between the negative side of the solenoid and the negative terminal on the block connector. I stripped out the burnt/melted wire/covering and replaced it with a new wire. These are the two wires that go to one side of the solenoid "trigger" screws - not the main positive power cables.
Got it all wired back up per the manual electrical diagrams and tried to start it up....no go....no solenoid click ... no nothing. So I am wondering if I also fried my rectifier - and is that even in the the starter circuit. Before I melted the wire, I did try to jump the two positive lugs on the solenoid and I got nothing. I could hear and feel it move when I turned the switch but no cranking.
I am thinking that I need to buy another solenoid and give it a shot... nothing to lose...just hope I didn't fry some other part of the ignition system.

Unless you & Uncle Billybob are the same person; you're totally hacking his post!

"I took the positive battery lead off the solenoid and touched the bottom hot lug from the opposite side of the solenoid. Got a spark and the starter motor cranked up"
Sounds like you no ground to the starter

 

[jerryjerry05]

The rectifier has nothing to do with starting, only charging.

 

[Capn Morgan]

I may have set up a profile earlier and the site recognizes my email... sure don't mean to be hacking anyone's account!
Anyway.... how is the starter motor grounded exactly? It it screwed tight in a vertical position to the block by the two through-bolts at the top and there is a bottom support screwed into the starter and attached to the block. Aren't those the only two negative ground points?

 

[jerryjerry05]

Yes both points are the starter ground.
Under the starter against the block is a ground
lug that the battery cable is attached to.
Check the ground and check the battery cable
itself?
Open up the starter and check for broken pieces??
The battery attachment point can break and cause the
problem.

 

[The Force power]

I may have set up a profile earlier and the site recognizes my email... sure don't mean to be hacking anyone's account!

You're not "hacking" anybody's account but if your are not the same person that started the original post...then you're "hacking" the post by asking your question in someone else's post.
(your suppose to start your own, by starting a new post)
So just for clarity; you are the same person?

 

[The Force power]

How is the starter motor grounded exactly? It it screwed tight in a vertical position to the block by the two through-bolts at the top and there is a bottom support screwed into the starter and attached to the block. Aren't those the only two negative ground points?

There's (should be) a small 90 degree angle at the bottom of the starter that "helps" to ensure a proper ground check/clean all ground terminals & block surfaces

 

[pnwboat]

Make sure the Neutral Safety switch isn't bad or mis-adjusted. It's located on the throttle cable linkage. Little black rectangular switch and has two yellow wires going to it. It has two screws that you can loosen and adjust the position. See attached photo. Disregard the yellow arrow and numbers in the photo.

 

[puffitu]

Check battery ground connection as well as Neutral switch but...you need to slow down and relax, you’re frying more parts without isolating potential culprits -just saying.

 

[puffitu]

It may be the circuit breaker; )

 

[The Force power]

It may be the circuit breaker; )

I think we lost him??