1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture *Video Added*

carpedium

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I brought the motor into a highly respected mechanic to do the following work:

Link/Sync the new cables that I had previously installed.

Troubleshoot the ignition system for an intermittent problem that produces the following symptom:

1.) Motor will not start when cold - no spark. After all of the tinkering in the world, and waiting about 30 to 45 mins most of the time it will crank and run fine until the next time it happens, sometimes a month goes by and its fine. when it does happen, it always happens in the morning at 4:00am when I am trying to go fishing. - Checked the following: remove red plug, disconnect entire ignition stop circuit. Problem persists.

Troubleshoot the ignition system for a persistent problem that produces the following symptoms:

2.) Motor seems to run sluggishly, where as a few years ago it was very fast and snappy. I have lost weight since so its not that. (haha)
3.) Motor sometimes stalls when you put it in gear without adding throttle immediately.

The motor is actually an '83. The motor mechanic says that the spark is great on the top cyl, then gets incrementally weaker for the 2nd and 3rd. The compression is 120 PSI exactly on each cyl, and he says its a good engine mechanically. He said that he could not get it to start, and he gave up on it telling me to pick it up with a recommendation for another mechanic. Fair enough, he didn't charge me. But when I towed it home, I put to muffs on, and it cranked right up. It actually cranked up, and immediately started to run up to a high RPM condition. I shut it off just as fast to ensure my motor did not blow up.

Upon inspecting the motor, the "arm" (green arrow) that controls the ignition timing advance, that is connected to the throttle lever with a spring return, was being held all the way forward when it was supposed to be in the start condition (blue arrow). No wonder the thing was taking off like a rocket! I drilled and tapped a hole in the back of that arm (red arrow), so that i could confirm that would bring the timing advance back into reality and the motor could then idle. It did.

So, now I have a new question raised:

4.) Am I missing a part? how would this timing advance by all the way forward like this?
5.) Is the part that the yellow arrow is pointing to supposed to be green?

Any help to get this beauty back to pushing my boat would be greatly appreciated.

2012-04-20_13-39-49_62-1-1.jpg


2012-04-20_13-39-49_62-1.jpg
 

carpedium

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

Can everyone see the arrows OK? I added a larger pic.
 

Daviet

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

1-3, It sounds like you have an ignition problem. Do you have a factory manual to troubleshoot the ignition system? You could go to CDI's wedsite, find your engine, and use their troubleshooting guide. You will have to do this when the engine woun't start.
4, If you disconnect the throttle cable and move the timing linkage byhand does it advance and retard properly? Does it move freely and is not binding at any point?
5, If the arrow is pointing at the stator, the ones I have seen are green.
 

carpedium

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

1-3, It sounds like you have an ignition problem. Do you have a factory manual to troubleshoot the ignition system? You could go to CDI's wedsite, find your engine, and use their troubleshooting guide. You will have to do this when the engine woun't start.
4, If you disconnect the throttle cable and move the timing linkage byhand does it advance and retard properly? Does it move freely and is not binding at any point?
5, If the arrow is pointing at the stator, the ones I have seen are green.

It always starts when I try to troubleshoot it. I think this year I will just but the troubleshooting guide in the glove box.

4.) The timing linkage tries to moves freely but tries to "spring forward", and it advances the timing all the way to the stop, even when the throttle is in the neutral position.

5.) yes that is the stator.
 

carpedium

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

Ggg
 

Daviet

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

Does it spring forward with out the engine running or does it do it when the engine is running.
 

carpedium

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

Does it spring forward with out the engine running or does it do it when the engine is running.

Under both circumstances it moves forward
 

carpedium

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

Does anyone know what position the thing that the blue arrow is pointing to should be in at idle? Is there an adjustment for this?
 

fishfeatures

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

if the lync and sync wasn't done right , then the cable could be pushing the timing arm (blue arrow) too far forward and hence it won't idle properly. make sure throttle is down , release the cables from where they are held in at the engine, they should just slide on and off their carriers with no force or adjustment needed.
Is you cam follower mark (purple arrow) hitting the roller exactly at the mark as you go to advance the throttle? it may be me,, but I think that it looks off, and therefore you'll have to do a lync and sync as per manual..
 

lexer440

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

Upon inspecting the motor, the "arm" (green arrow) that controls the ignition timing advance, that is connected to the throttle lever with a spring return, was being held all the way forward when it was supposed to be in the start condition (blue arrow).

Does this not suggest that the throttle lever was not in neutral? because if it was then the cable would have brought the arm, (green arrow), back to idle yes? The arm should return to idle by spring pressure and only the remote cable would keep it forward unless it was deliberately held there during sync & link.
 

lexer440

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

guess fishfeatures is two steps ahead of me :)
 

Joe Reeves

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

Upon inspecting the motor, the "arm" (green arrow) that controls the ignition timing advance, that is connected to the throttle lever with a spring return, was being held all the way forward when it was supposed to be in the start condition (blue arrow). No wonder the thing was taking off like a rocket! I drilled and tapped a hole in the back of that arm (red arrow), so that i could confirm that would bring the timing advance back into reality and the motor could then idle. It did.

DO NOT attempt to make improvements to the design of the engine.... drilling and tapping a hole for a screw in the vertical throttle arm! Get rid of that screw.

The two adjustable screws that you see attached to the crankcase halves are for setting the full throttle (carb Butterfly) position and the idle setting.

Before finding the intermitent problem with the ignition, first find and correct the problem with the vertical throttle arm/timing base assembly. Disconnect the throttle cable from the bottom of the vertical throttle arm.

Now, with your fingers at the bottom of that vertical throttle arm, slowly move it from the full retard position to the full spark advance position up against the rubber stop. It should have moved smoothly, no sticking, stopping, jerking, all the way through that range.

From that point on, continuing to apply pressure on the bottom portion of the vertical throttle arm should simply result in having the spring loaded portion of the vertical throttle arm force the carburetor butterflies open to their full throttle (horizontal) position.

That large coiled spring between the two arm sections does exist, doesn't it?

Reversing the procedure... allowing the vertical throttle arm to first spring back, then pulling it back to the idle position should close the throttle butterflies and retard the timer base to its retard position. What I've explained here is the normal operation of the throttle/spark advance procedure. If sticking etc is encountered, correct whatever is causing that problem.

With the vertical throttle lever in the idle position, I do not comprehend how the timer base could possibly be at a full spark position when the linkage connection between the two is a solid metal link.

When there is absolutely no sticking etc, install/connect the throttle cable and adjust the threaded cable trunion to its idle position. Let us know what you find with this particular problem.

Now, unfortunately a intermitent problem must raise its ugly head in order to find it. When you find that you have no spark and you're sure it is a NO SPARK condition (no guess work), either disconnect the black/yellow wire from the powerpack or from the "M" terminal of the ignition switch, whichever is easiest. If you now have spark, either there is another wire somehow connected to that "M" terminal or the ignition switch has an intermitent short... usually the ignition switch is faulty in which case, replace it.

With that black/yellow (kill circuit) wire disconnected, you could use your engine for the day without harming the engine BUT it will be impossible to shut the engine down via the key. Also DO NOT allow the terminal end of that black/yellow wire to ground out anywhere accidently during the day as that will shut the engine down. Let us know also what you find in this ignition area.
 

carpedium

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

Does this not suggest that the throttle lever was not in neutral? because if it was then the cable would have brought the arm, (green arrow), back to idle yes? The arm should return to idle by spring pressure and only the remote cable would keep it forward unless it was deliberately held there during sync & link.

Actually, if the spring is supposed to hold the arm BACK... then I think the spring may be installed wrong. I think the spring is holding the arm forward instead of back. I will check on my lunch break.
 

carpedium

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

DO NOT attempt to make improvements to the design of the engine.... drilling and tapping a hole for a screw in the vertical throttle arm! Get rid of that screw.

The two adjustable screws that you see attached to the crankcase halves are for setting the full throttle (carb Butterfly) position and the idle setting.

Before finding the intermitent problem with the ignition, first find and correct the problem with the vertical throttle arm/timing base assembly. Disconnect the throttle cable from the bottom of the vertical throttle arm.

Now, with your fingers at the bottom of that vertical throttle arm, slowly move it from the full retard position to the full spark advance position up against the rubber stop. It should have moved smoothly, no sticking, stopping, jerking, all the way through that range.

From that point on, continuing to apply pressure on the bottom portion of the vertical throttle arm should simply result in having the spring loaded portion of the vertical throttle arm force the carburetor butterflies open to their full throttle (horizontal) position.

That large coiled spring between the two arm sections does exist, doesn't it?

Reversing the procedure... allowing the vertical throttle arm to first spring back, then pulling it back to the idle position should close the throttle butterflies and retard the timer base to its retard position. What I've explained here is the normal operation of the throttle/spark advance procedure. If sticking etc is encountered, correct whatever is causing that problem.

With the vertical throttle lever in the idle position, I do not comprehend how the timer base could possibly be at a full spark position when the linkage connection between the two is a solid metal link.

When there is absolutely no sticking etc, install/connect the throttle cable and adjust the threaded cable trunion to its idle position. Let us know what you find with this particular problem.

Now, unfortunately a intermitent problem must raise its ugly head in order to find it. When you find that you have no spark and you're sure it is a NO SPARK condition (no guess work), either disconnect the black/yellow wire from the powerpack or from the "M" terminal of the ignition switch, whichever is easiest. If you now have spark, either there is another wire somehow connected to that "M" terminal or the ignition switch has an intermitent short... usually the ignition switch is faulty in which case, replace it.

With that black/yellow (kill circuit) wire disconnected, you could use your engine for the day without harming the engine BUT it will be impossible to shut the engine down via the key. Also DO NOT allow the terminal end of that black/yellow wire to ground out anywhere accidently during the day as that will shut the engine down. Let us know also what you find in this ignition area.

Thank you kindly for your elaborate response. Let me take some time to digest this and perform the diagnostics you suggest and I will post back.
 

carpedium

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

I made a video to make it easier to understand what is moving where.

All of the movements are quite smooth, with no sticking spots.


Sorry for the poor production quality. In the beginning I am reading the model number off of the stamp at the top of the block, not the flywheel.
 

Joe Reeves

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

In that video, it appears to me that there is an awfully lot of threads on the sync rod sticking out the front on the nylon connector.... between the vertical throttle arm and the cam roller assembly. Look in your manual to see what the idle pickup timing is supposed to be.... that is, when the throttle butterflies start to open in relation to the timing (scribe mark on cam touches center of roller). This is changed by the length of that threaded rod.

Some engines are measured in degrees, some are actually measured in inches between the rod in the vertical throttle arm and the back portion of that threaded nylon connector. Unfortunately I don't have the 1983 book handy.
 

Big Bubba

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture

I agree with Joe Reeves, that the lync and sync is out on this motor. He needs to start from step 1 in the OMC manual and redo the link and sync. That Rod has alot of threads shoing ahead on the vertical metal throttle rod. Yeah, this seems similiar to my motor when I first bought it for my pontoon boat. I guess the guy that had the motor before me had adjusted that rod and caused the motor to run about 2500 rpm at idle so I had to do a complete link and sync with my motor. basically what you need to do is comepletely disconnect your throttle and gear cables at the motor and get the motor died in without any cables hooked up and then once the motor is right then make sure you mirror the throttle control inside your boat to match the motor. I had to adjust my cables to slip fit into there respective studs on the motor after the motor was dead on right adjusted correctly then reconnect your cables. so begin the link and sync at your motor then reconnect your cables without moving any linkages already adjusted on the motor when you reconnect your cables.
 

Big Bubba

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture *Video Added*

Sorry to confuse you but I just got off of work so I am not thinking clearly yeah my sentence below is confusing, I think, so it Should have read, "dialed in" and not "died in" as I said in my sentence below and I misspelled completely. Sorry for the confusion. Once I get a chance I will remove my motor cover and take a picture of my Johnson, 70 Horse, model J70ELCTE that looks exactly like your motor to help you out.:)

"My confused and misspelled sentence"
"basically what you need to do is comepletely disconnect your throttle and gear cables at the motor and get the motor died in without any cables hooked up and then once the motor is right then make sure you mirror the throttle control inside your boat to match the motor"
 

Big Bubba

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture *Video Added*

Yeap, his timing is advanced way too much in that picture after looking at it again. That Rod defintely has too much threads showing past the nylon connector.
 

Joe Reeves

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Re: 1983 Evinrude 70hp - a few problems better explained with picture *Video Added*

Looking forward to that picture Bubba.
 
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