1980 skeeter sf150 - Johnson 140hp tilt/trim?

[cragenj3]

Bought a boat and the thing won't trim down.

Trims up fine; and through various stages of trying to bleed the sound of up or down changes... Will never go down even a little bit despite noise changes...going down also never produces air or bubbles.

Adding fluid, intermittently, now way down, overfull put the plug in as its stilk running out..

If I go up indefinitely, adding fluid intermittently, there are always bubbles, the fluid turns to bubbles.

Going down it never turns to bubbles and never moves. If I release the pressure it will go down, and tightened back up it'll go up.

Spent probably 30 minutes filling, holding up, filling, holding down, filling, holding up, filling holding down filling holding down filling holding down, etc. Tried filling with trim down, holding down,

Literally every possible motion and combination of motions to try to bleed air... Starting to wonder if there's just a bad deal on the down side... Idk..

I need help.

In picture, engine is locked in up position, but obviously it wasn't during testing... I locked it up because I'm about to take the whole thing out.

Trying to go down sounds weaker but there's also a few mild screech noises before it becomes a steady, fainter, normal noise.

View attachment IMG_20230811_203023.jpg

 

[brodmann]

So, it does make noise when you try to tilt down? So the motor is working when you press the "down" button? But it does go down when you loosen the relief screw? That's odd. I usually think of the down movement as sort of "passive". The motor pumps oil into the cylinder to raise the piston, but reverses and pumps the fluid out to let the motor drop. Basically letting the weight of the motor do the work. I'd check all the "pivot points" where the motor connects to the mounting part of the motor. Since the down movement is "passive" and not actually based on hydraulics, a binding in the area where it pivots may be keeping it from lowering. Does it take much force to push the motor down when you loosen the relief screw?

 

[racerone]

Model # is required.-----Some of these do have oil pressure on top of the tilt piston to bring motor down.

 

[cragenj3]

How far I loosen the release determines the difficulty of lowering.

If crack it open, takes probably 20 pounds to force it down. If I got a quarter turn, takes 5 lbs.

If I go 3/4 turn it'll go down on its own.

 

[cragenj3]

Model # is required.-----Some of these do have oil pressure on top of the tilt piston to bring motor down.

Model of the tilt trim? Have to look in morning..

 

[racerone]

Yes , that is how a manual release valve works !!----Model # of your outboard motor ?.-----Sounds like a stuck / bab check valve in the trim system.

 

[cragenj3]

Yes , that is how a manual release valve works !!----Model # of your outboard motor ?.-----Sounds like a stuck / bab check valve in the trim system.

 

[cragenj3]

The check valve seems fine; it's not seized or weak, and I replaced the o-rings to no avail.

 

[cragenj3]

Sorry, the Valve Seat Housing and Seal seems fine.

The Piston, Let Down Control doesn't seem to be a functional item, or an item with moving parts...

 

[flyingscott]

Your release is working fine. Your problem is somewhere else

 

[cragenj3]

I reassembled with new o-rings and manually pushed the spring loaded piston a bit deeper s couple times to make sure it had motion, feels smooth, as if the dowel of it properly depresses whatever's deeper.

After fiddling with that and doing some more attempts at bleeding, which is hard since everyone says fill at full up, then lower and raise and check again...well I can't lower. Haha. Tryna lower via the release etc etc... Now it still goes up perfectly fine; and at first tap it'll go pretend like it's going to go down, a fraction of a second of going down a 1/16th of an inch... Progress is progress.
Ofc if I just tap the button repeatedly it'll never go more.

Basically i can go up, stop, and with the down switch it'll go down 1/16th of an inch.... It'll always go up fine, and at any new height it'll basically let the down switch bleed off a tiny fraction of pressure/fluid....

Seems like fiddling with the check valve did help something, perhaps smooth operation by hand isn't a valid test.

 

[cragenj3]

The lower pistons also never move; idk if that's relevant...saw it on another forum that those are supposed to move sometimes?

 

[cragenj3]

Also, does anyone know what the Philips on the other side does? There's the flathead fill plug, and on the other side, same spot, there's a Phillips....

 

[cragenj3]

So, it does make noise when you try to tilt down? So the motor is working when you press the "down" button? But it does go down when you loosen the relief screw? That's odd. I usually think of the down movement as sort of "passive". The motor pumps oil into the cylinder to raise the piston, but reverses and pumps the fluid out to let the motor drop. Basically letting the weight of the motor do the work. I'd check all the "pivot points" where the motor connects to the mounting part of the motor. Since the down movement is "passive" and not actually based on hydraulics, a binding in the area where it pivots may be keeping it from lowering. Does it take much force to push the motor down when you loosen the relief screw?

I tried ratchet strapping the engine down while I powered down and no go. Tilts easy with relief open. Runs, basically gurgles sometimes, not able to get it bled... If you run it down forever, the reservoir never has bubbles or pressure... If you run it up forever, the reservoir will always have bubbles and pressure.

I've also tried removing fluid to get it to be able to bleed pressure back; as if it's too full and therefore can't displace any fluid to go down... Still consistent noise, intermittent gurgles/screeches...no motion.

 

[racerone]

Check all the check valves in the housing.

 

[cragenj3]

I'm only aware of the 1 valve... Bottom left flathead is a valve assembly..and inside that is a pin+spring/body/pin+spring, and deeper after that is a little push button that is so deep you csnt rrally do anything aside from push it...

I assume this hole is valve body, pushrods, valve body... But the deeper valve body isn't really accessible for testing, I know when I took the outermost valve out, fluid came out... Is there a way to test the inner such as manually depressing it while running the up or down?


Those are the only valves that are obvious and accessible; basically the serviceable valves....without total disassembly.

I'd have just jumped the gun and rebuilt the thing completely, 3 days ago, but it's looking like the stern mount has to be split/spread to get the ptt out.

 

[racerone]

??----Parts book shows 4 ( four ) check valves.----Item #60.

 

[cragenj3]

??----Parts book shows 4 ( four ) check valves.----Item #60.

I found 5 check valves + the pressure relief... All are fine.

Had heck loads of fluid in it, much more than I expected... my wonder is maybe it had too much fluid somehow...Haven't refilled yet to test, no fluid on hand.


Guess my next option would be a big deal like in 1 of the 3 pistons or maybe that little flathead inside the motor is goofed up, seems fine, twists fine, motor is strong and fast, everything seems fine so far