1980 Evinrude 15 hp shift / forward gear problem

[swelego]

I bought this Evinrude 15 hp 1980 (E15BACSD) yesterday, the fuel pump was broken so I didn't run it when bought. Since all the visible parts of the motor looked good (great) and seller was a gentleman in his eighties who seemed kind and trustworthy I didnt think much about it. Wanted it, bought it

Motor had been sitting indoors for about a year he told me and he never experienced any problems with it, it was simply too small for his boat. I believed him and didn't expect any major problems with this one. Actually still believe what he said!

Anyway, I fixed the fuel pump and replaced the fuel hose today and fired it up at home. Ran smooth and nice, seemed to be no more problems so I put it on the boat and headed to the lake for a test drive. When in the water I pulled the rope and it started. Let it run for a while and then put it in forward gear, or did I? Boat didn't move. Tried a bit more throttle but nope. Back to neutral and forward again, nothing. Tried reverse and it works. So I have reverse but no forward. Shift lever is a bit floating or how to say, not as exact between R-N-F as my other Evinrude / Johnson motors.

Any ideas?

Lower unit oil is drained btw, no metal but dont look right - brown/grayish, no water in it what I can see thou.
Since reverse works I guess its not a faulty prop / hub!?

Sorry for not keeping it short and simple...

Thanks
Magnus in Sweden

 

[OptsyEagle]

Re: 1980 Evinrude 15 hp shift / forward gear problem

I would drop the lower unit and make sure that the shift rod connector is connected properly. The shift rod has an indent in it and the slotted screw needs to be in that indent cavity. Sometimes people connect it too short by basically squeezing the end of the shift rod with the connector and therefore the shifter doesn't move it's full length. They also usually ruin the slotted screw when they do that as well.

Here is a picture of the connector.

 

[swelego]

Re: 1980 Evinrude 15 hp shift / forward gear problem

Thank you, I will try that.

 

[OptsyEagle]

Re: 1980 Evinrude 15 hp shift / forward gear problem

If that is the case and you have the lower unit down anyways, you might want to look at changing the impeller. Unless you know when it was done last, they need to be changed every 5 years, whether used or not, and they need to be changed when they are working fine. You don't get enough advance notice to wait and change them after they fail.

 

[raczekp1]

Re: 1980 Evinrude 15 hp shift / forward gear problem

here you have nice article about this motor
OMC outboard related articles

 

[swelego]

Re: 1980 Evinrude 15 hp shift / forward gear problem

If that is the case and you have the lower unit down anyways, you might want to look at changing the impeller. Unless you know when it was done last, they need to be changed every 5 years, whether used or not, and they need to be changed when they are working fine. You don't get enough advance notice to wait and change them after they fail.

I'll check the impeller while at it, thanks.

I have had a look, didnt take it apart only dropped it to check the connector on the shifting rod, will do more tonight (CET) when i have more time. The lower part of the rod was sitting a few millimeters (like .120 perhaps) over the middle of the connector center so to say. Can try to take a oic if needed. Not sure how far past the screw the lower rod should go. Any ideas?

Really appreciate the help!

 

[Chinewalker]

Re: 1980 Evinrude 15 hp shift / forward gear problem

The shift rods (upper and lower) only go in one way. The detents in the respective rods seat around the bolts in the coupling.

You mention the shift being loose. Is the detent spring on the side of the powerhead, forward of the fuel pump, intact and pressing against the notches in the shift lockout cam? The lockout is the piece that rotates to lock into the magneto plate to prevent throttling up too far in neutral or reverse. The spring tabs are known to break off.

 

[swelego]

Re: 1980 Evinrude 15 hp shift / forward gear problem

here you have nice article about this motor
OMC outboard related articles

Thank you, I'm actually quite familiar with that site

 

[swelego]

Re: 1980 Evinrude 15 hp shift / forward gear problem

The shift rods (upper and lower) only go in one way. The detents in the respective rods seat around the bolts in the coupling.

You mention the shift being loose. Is the detent spring on the side of the powerhead, forward of the fuel pump, intact and pressing against the notches in the shift lockout cam? The lockout is the piece that rotates to lock into the magneto plate to prevent throttling up too far in neutral or reverse. The spring tabs are known to break off.

Thanks. I just thought the lower one might have been worn or so since it went in further than the upper. But I can rule that out then.
The shift is not loose like not locking at all, it?s just that it don't have as distinct stops at R/N/F as my 6 and 25hp.

I have had a look on the lockout cam and the other parts connection the shift to the head and lower unit (not very good at naming parts in english...), but I did a check for wear and tear and also took a few things of and then put em back. My lockout cam is plastic if that makes a difference.

I've put it all back and had a go in a barrel with good result and then been to the lake again. I'll write about what happened there in a new post in a moment.

 

[OptsyEagle]

Re: 1980 Evinrude 15 hp shift / forward gear problem

I'll check the impeller while at it, thanks.

The lower part of the rod was sitting a few millimeters (like .120 perhaps) over the middle of the connector center so to say. Can try to take a oic if needed. Not sure how far past the screw the lower rod should go. Any ideas?

That may be OK. I would suggest if you drop it down again, that you disconnect it completely and then reconnect to be sure it is set up OK. In a motor I had, the previous owner had the part of the shift rod below the indent, jammed in right beside the slotted screw (not below it). As Chinewalker said, it only goes in one way, except when an idiot takes a really big screw driver and forces the screw into that cavity. Basically the screw on mine was jammed in there so tight that it was the only thing keeping the shifter from disconnecting on its own when the shifter above was moved.

I have no idea if I would have obtain both forward and reverse because I found out about this when I first acquired the motor and basically changed the impeller before I even started it up. I did have to get a new slotted screw for it.

 

[swelego]

Re: 1980 Evinrude 15 hp shift / forward gear problem

Thank you again OptsyEagle. I will drop it again later and check the impeller and at the same time make sure that screw isn't forced in somehow.
________________________

At the lake I backed out and turned around, carefully put it in forward and I actually moved forward!

The happy boater tried to pick up some speed and the motor responded and then a second later starts shaking and jumping like it go on and of grip, (but not out of gear!). Can't really explain it better. If I go back to slow speed and low rpm's it get grip and moves with no shake/jump. And if i put it in reverse and back up a few feet and then go forward again I get a little more grip and are able to put up some more speed for a few second before the jumping and shaking begins again.

I think the initial shifting problem wasn't so much a shifting related problem as it was a consequence of the gear case sitting with bad oil and not enough oil for some time. It simply clogged up a little and needed new oil.

I'm starting to think this problem really is due to a dried up, spun prop hub even if I know I ruled that out in the first post. Simply turning the prop by hand might not be enough force to make it spin? - tried that. - or putting it in gear in a barrel, tried that too. When in the lake pushing me and the boat might be enough to make it spin. What do you say, - is it possible the prop is bad?

I'll take the prop of and look for grooves in the outer washer tomorrow. Hopefully someone here have confirmed or rejected my idea of the prop being the problem by then.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1980 Evinrude 15 hp shift / forward gear problem

If a spun hub on the prop, you would have a smooth transition from going forward to a racing engine and the boat slowing down.

Your explanation of shaking and jumping (feels like you're hitting a submerged object?) describes a engine that is jumping out of, then right back into gear. Either the unit is not going all the way into forward gear OR the lobes of the shifter dog and forward gear are worn. Personally, I'd suspect it is not going all the way into gear.

Did you align the grooves on the two shift rods with the bolt holes of the brass shift connector?


(Jumping Out Of Gear - Manual Type)
(J. Reeves)

This pertains to lower units on all OMC manual shift outboard engines, or any OMC engine with lower units defined as a Shift Assist or a Hydro Electric Shift unit which incorporates a "Shifter Clutch Dog".

Within the lower unit, splined to the prop shaft is what is most often referred to as a clutch dog, hereafter simply called dog. The dog has at least two lobes protruding from it on both ends, facing both forward and reverse gear. The forward and reverse gears also have lobes built into them near their center area. When the engine is running, in neutral, the gears are spinning constantly via the driveshaft being connected directly to the powerhead crankshaft, but the propeller does not turn due to the fact that the dog is centered between the two gears, and the dog lobes are not touching either of the gear lobes.

When the unit is put into either gear, shift linkages force the dog (and its lobes of course) to engage the lobes of the gear. The lobes of the spinning gear grab the lobes of the dog, and since the dog is splined to the prop shaft, the propeller turns.

The lobes of the dog and gears are precisely machined, most with right angled edges that could be installed in either direction, and some with angles slightly varied that must be installed in one direction only (one end only must face the propeller). Dogs that can be installed in one direction only, if reversed, even if the dog and both gears were new.... would jump out of gear almost immediately. Keep in mind that the lobes are precisely machined with sharp angles!

Due to improper adjustment or worn shift linkages, but usually due to improper slow shifting, those precisely machined sharp edges of the lobes become slightly rounded. Now, with those lobes rounded, as the rpms increase, the pressure of the gear lobes upon the dog lobes increases to a point whereas they are forced apart (jumping out of gear), and due (usually) to the shift cable keeping tension on the engines shift linkages..... the unit is forced back into gear giving one the sensation that the engine has hit something, and the cycle continues.

Some boaters with manual shift engines have the mistaken belief that shifting slowly is taking it easy on all of the shifting components..... Wrong! Shifting slowly allows those precisely machined sharp edges of the dog and gears to click, clank, bang, slam against each other many times before they are finally forced into alignment with each other..... and this is what rounds those edges off! The proper way to shift is to snap the unit into gear as quickly as possible.

 

[swelego]

Re: 1980 Evinrude 15 hp shift / forward gear problem

Thank you Joe Reeves.

You are probably right and my spun hub theory have then been rejected again. Hopefully, if one of the two, its not going all the way in. The other alternative sounds both expensive and time consuming.... Will take a look at that screw again!

 

[swelego]

Re: 1980 Evinrude 15 hp shift / forward gear problem

Well I've tried a different prop now after the original one was rejected as faulty by more eyes than mine, and have to say the prop did not look like this a couple of nights ago when I got it. It probably dried up during it year resting and broke when ran again or I was just fooled (see pic from today).

New prop was actually better, but its still jumping back and forth. Didn't drive more than like a 100 feet because of the diagnosis from here, hopefully not to long to cause to much more damage. But felt I had to give it a go, even if stupid given the answers..... Pretty sure it is like Joe Reeves told now after driving the boat again.

- And to explain; by jumping I mean the engine seem to get grip, drops out and directly gets grip again back and forth. Probably would have better luck if English was my native language... :/ But Im shifting with confidence btw

About the brass shift rod connector I was told the screw only go in one way, I did think it looked kinda off with lower side beeing 3-4mm higher of the center of the connector. So I'll probably start there and get it lowered a bit when I've dropped the lower unit again. Lowering should get it to move further, wouldn't it?

Anyone want to give any advise?

Thanks

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1980 Evinrude 15 hp shift / forward gear problem

The center of the brass shift connector has no bearing on the linkage.... the grooves of the shift rods need to be centered with the bolt holes of the shift connector.

 

[swelego]

Ive been away fishing for a few days and haven't been able to work on the engine until yesterday and today.

This is what I've done:

First I had a look at the linkage and at the same time took the lower unit off to have a look at the drive shaft. Everything seemed OK so I put it back together but the shifter still felt nothing like my other working Johnson and Evinrude outboards.

So I took the lower unit off again and this time I also took a look at the gearbox. I did not see any metal shavings or abuse to any parts of it. This prop shaft has a spring and two ball bearing balls (dont know what the balls are called...) that goes through it. One of the balls was not in place after I took it apart, but don't know if I dropped it or if it wasn't in place before. Anyway, it took me quite some time to get it out from under the shift lever yoke....

So after I put the gearbox back together and had the lower unit back in place the shifter actually felt different. I can now feel the positions of R-N-F as distinct stops or how to say - the shift mechanism now feels the same as the others.

Two hours ago I took the boat back to the lake and this is what happened:

- I was able to go out at low speed without any problems
- There was no more jumping back and forth when I increased the speed somewhat
- I was actually able to get the bow (not sure if its the proper term =front...) to raise but as it felt like we where going on plane, or coming close to, the gear jumped out again.
- I'm not sure but I think the rpm increased right before the gear jumped out. I've never had it running properly but by the sound I would say its racing a bit when pushed to speed.

Any ideas?

I was thinking maybe the shift lever - lock link needs adjusting but it feels like it's more to it than that....

Thanks