1977 Johnson 35 - Won't start

[dukes88]

Good morning,

New to the site, I have an old '77 Johnson 35Hp that runs great. Electric start stopped working a couple weeks back and I tried a number of things and then realized that I could jump the left side (starter side) of the solenoid relay from the battery and it would start no problem (jumper cables from battery).

So, I am not in a city with any decent marine stores, so I ordered a new one (well 2) from Amazon. Popped in the new solenoid relay and no change. So... I am at a bit of a loss and before I start replacing all the wires and parts one by one, I thought I would try to see if anyone had any potential solutions.

The motor runs so well when it starts it is a shame.

I am not sure that I hear any clicking in the solenoid when I use the key, but the key does need to be engaged to start it and when you turn the key off it stops it as it should (I am guessing this means my key/ignition is working?

It is possible that the solenoid is not the correct one - they are a pretty simple 4 post unit (it is slightly (very slightly) smaller in the bracket than the previous one.

Any suggestions, or questions?

Appreciated.

 

[Crosbyman]

solenoid need power to close the starter circuit and be grounded
first thing to check before spending $$$ is to check if volatge is presented to the solenoid with the key at start...

power to the solenoid from the key may be interrupted by the neutral switch. key the key on START and wiggle the throttle to see if the solneoid reacts.

some motors rather than interrupting power "if out of neutral" will be wired to interrupt the ground side of the solenoid.

if nothing and no 12v at the solenoid at start then you have to backtrace and look for bad connections, broken wires etc... keep the key on START and wiggle the wire harness.. if you have a reaction you found the problem !

Some wires break from bending in the power harness. keep the key at START and rotate the engine left right left ...if you have a reaction you have a broken wire in the harness.


see diagram for another engine... typical layout

https://maxrules.com/graphics/omc/wiring/77-78_55HP.jpg

check for any blownfuse of the solenoid redwire heading up front to the key B+ post. all depnds on your wire config.

to test your old or new solenoid just apply 12v on the solenoid small control post .. if it works solenoid is ok

 

[dukes88]

Thanks, I will check those.

There is power on the battery side of the solenoid (power runs directly from the battery to the right side large post).

I have tried and not found power on the starter side of the solenoid when the key is turned.

There are two extra red wires that attach to the battery cable side of the solenoid and then the two wires on the smaller posts. Would the suggestion be that one of those may have a fuse (or of course be bad/broken) along the way.

Second, when you say test the solenoid with 12V, how would I do that? Jump one of the small posts on the solenoid from the battery to see if it works?

Appreciated.

 

[Crosbyman]

to test the solenoid " locally" just use a pieceof wire and link the entry 12v from the battery and touch the small control post on the solenoid.... one post goes to ground so be carefull. the control post from the key is the one you needto energize.

if the ground part of the solenoid is not interrupted the solenoid should click and start the starter going.

if the solenoid is proerly grounded (directly or via the neutral switch) and powering the solenoid does nothing then the solenoid inner coil is open


as in all cases good clean shiny connections area must from the battery posts to engine frame and solenoid posts ...

voltage is useless if it can't carry amps !! because of corrosion in connections

There are two extra red wires that attach to the battery cable side of the solenoid these are for sending power to the key usually via a fuse !!! and one is from the rectifier to feedback charge current to the battery

and then the two wires on the smaller posts. one is your control (activate post) the other is ground via or not an interup neutral switch to keep you fromstarting OUT OF NEUTRAL

 

[dukes88]

to test the solenoid " locally" just use a pieceof wire and link the entry 12v from the battery and touch the small control post on the solenoid.... one post goes to ground so be carefull. the control post from the key is the one you needto energize.

if the ground part of the solenoid is not interrupted the solenoid should click and start the starter going.

if the solenoid is proerly grounded (directly or via the neutral switch) and powering the solenoid does nothing then the solenoid inner coil is open


as in all cases good clean shiny connections area must from the battery posts to engine frame and solenoid posts ...

voltage is useless if it can't carry amps !! because of corrosion in connections

Thanks again, both wires that attach to the small posts are coming from the same grouping of wires (and same colour). How do I know for sure which side is ground? Maybe a dumb question. I have hooked it up the way it was, but I see pictures of the same motor with the solenoid both ways (posts down as mine was and posts up).

 

[Willyclay]

...these are for sending power to the key usually via a fuse!!!

It is usually something simple like a fuse or corroded connections. The link below should help you find the fuse in your starting system (#8 on the diagram).

Johnson Instrument & Cable Parts for 1977 35hp 35EL77H Outboard Motor

Online inventory of Johnson 35EL77H Instrument & Cable parts for 1977 35hp outboard motors. Buy a genuine OEM or aftermarket part.

www.marineengine.com

I had the same experience as you but my problem was corroded wiring inside the in-line fuse holder and the fuse was okay. Good luck!

 

[Crosbyman]

Thanks again, both wires that attach to the small posts are coming from the same grouping of wires (and same colour). How do I know for sure which side is ground? Maybe a dumb question. I have hooked it up the way it was, but I see pictures of the same motor with the solenoid both ways (posts down as mine was and posts up).

ground wires are usually black power wires are usually red sometimes purple from the switch START post so don't apply power to black wires.

you have to learn to use a volt ohm meter if you plan servicing your oldy

post a color photo close up of your solenoid wires. but do easy stuff if you are not at ease doing power tests.

as indicated.. check the fuse if you have one, wiggle cables with the key on START etc... when you get a reaction on the starter you will be close to a happy ending ...

 

[racerone]

There may be a " neutral start " switch on the motor.-----Find it / bypass it / test it / clean it.----I can not see your boat or control box.-----There may be a safety switch in the control as well.

 

[airshot]

Now I know why I never became an electrician !!! Whew....all these could be...yellow, could be green, could be black, could be......??? Hope I never have electrical issues......

 

[Crosbyman]

Now I know why I never became an electrician !!! Whew....all these could be...yellow, could be green, could be black, could be......??? Hope I never have electrical issues......

Don't worry they told me I was color blind at my local Telco hiring office.. not good for splicing cable pairs..... so they kept me away from fixing color coded cables/pairs but I still worked 30 years there

wiring is usuall y the least of problems but yes it can be a challenge.

JOHNSON, EVINRUDE, AND OMC STANDARD WIRING COLOR CODES -- Mastertech Marine

WE HAVE PARTS, SERVICE MANUALS AND TECHNICAL HELP FOR WORKING WITH JOHNSON EVINRUDE OUTBOARD WIRING COLOR CODES

maxrules.com

ABYC Cable & Wire Color Codes for Boat & Marine Wiring

Primary Wire and Cables Color Codes For Marine & Boats - ABYC. What is a Marine Wire & Boat Cable? Standard Boat Wiring Low & Hogh Voltage Colors Codes

www.electricaltechnology.org

 

[Crosbyman]

https://i2.wp.com/www.maxrules.com/graphics/omc/wiring/77-78_55HP.jpg

in the 55hp version the solenoid is locally grounded and the neutral switch is in series from the key'S START post. not much to stop 12v from reacing the solenoid control prost other rtan broken wires, fuse or defctive neutral stop switch. a yellow-red controls the solenoid from the key via the neutral switch.

assumng the solenoid does click and work when a locally appliedd 12v gets it going, then work backwards to find the key's START 12v . Of course for the key to provide 12v it must receive 12v from the now fused purple 12v rerived from the solenoid on there red wire. Same post where the battery's incoming 12v main red is connected see diagram.

 

[Crosbyman]

utube johnson 35hp 1977 no start - Search Videos

www.bing.com

follow the video

 

[dukes88]

Thanks for all the advice and support - I had not brought the boat back to town, so had to wait until I got back out and could trace all the wires back. I did turn out to be the inline fuse (small glass fuse inside) that was the issue. By-passed it and fires up every time. I just need to get a replacement and add one back in this weekend. Thanks again to everyone and @Crosbyman for all the details. Really not much to these engines, but they can be frustrating.

 

[tphoyt]

In my eyes by-passing a fuse is a bad plan and can cause much bigger $$$ problems.
With a little luck the fuse just gave up but there may very well be a reason it gave up.

 

[dukes88]

In my eyes by-passing a fuse is a bad plan and can cause much bigger $$$ problems.
With a little luck the fuse just gave up but there may very well be a reason it gave up.

When you are in the middle of the bush with no parts dealer close by, the only way to test if that is the problem is to by-pass the burnt out fuse.

 

[tphoyt]

When you get a new fuse grab a couple extras.
Toss one in the tool box and tape one under the cowling.

 

[dukes88]

When you get a new fuse grab a couple extras.
Toss one in the tool box and tape one under the cowling.

For sure - just bought one and a few replacements (just in case there is an issue). Also bought new ground cable from battery and solenoid to replace.

Thanks.

 

[Crosbyman]

Thanks for all the advice and support - I had not brought the boat back to town, so had to wait until I got back out and could trace all the wires back. I did turn out to be the inline fuse (small glass fuse inside) that was the issue. By-passed it and fires up every time. I just need to get a replacement and add one back in this weekend. Thanks again to everyone and @Crosbyman for all the details. Really not much to these engines, but they can be frustrating.

back from the cottage.... read your fix... great news and thanks for the feedback.