1977 Ford 302 Rebuild Tips and Advice

[bluewavecaptain]

I have a 1977 Carver Santa Cruz. It has the OE motor and Volvo Penta 280 outdrive. It was my grandfather's boat. I don't have a detailed history other than it's spent it's life in freshwater and supposedly the engine heads were "gone through" at some point in the past.

I'd like to pull the motor and go through it and rebuild it. Everything is currently stock. I am not looking for more speed or horsepower. I want reliability and fuel economy. Looking at more of a "endurance" build for trips and such. I have been trying to search around on the inter-webs for some resources, but I'm not really finding much for rebuilding a Ford V8 marine engine. I know there's a difference to marine engines and their components versus an automotive motor. I have repair manuals for the setup and all the original paperwork/manuals for the boat. Some advice and tips would be appreciated.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Moved your post to the volvo forum as the questions forum is a read only forum.

 

[matt167]

What I would do, and only if your manifolds are still good Is buy a crate 347 stroker and put that in or build yours into one. Keeps everything the same. Longer stroke will help your economy as it will make torque at a lower hp. If your manifolds are bad or anything else. Switch to GM with some new and used parts

 

[Lpgc]

I rebuilt my boat's 1996 Ford 302 engine.

In case you're interested the link below is to a thread I started around June last year after just buying the boat when I didn't even know for sure which engine it had. The thread goes through me lifting the engine, rebuilding it with new pistons, new valves etc, reinstalling it, but also a lot of other none engine related stuff... Be warned it's a long read and isn't all about the engine rebuild!

I personally did all the measuring, honing, fitted new pistons on the old rods, put it all back together, etc but I had a local machine shop skim the heads and fit new valves in them. The next thing I'll probably do regards the engine is rebuild the carb, already have the 2bbl Holley carb rebuild kit.

1996 Four Winns Sundowner with 5.0 Cobra engine and drive

Hello everyone, I'm a new member and this is my first post. I did look to see if there was an introductions thread but didn't find one, hope it's OK to dive in with this post. My username Lpgc is the same username I use on a few other car related forums, I convert vehicles to run on LPG...

forums.iboats.com

I'm in England so major parts availability like blocks and heads is nowhere near as good as you're likely to have if you're in the US and engine/blocks etc that are available tend to get bought up quickly by engine builder shops... I could buy a newly rebuilt engine easier than I could buy an engine from a vehicle dismantler. It's even easier to buy a modified/stroker/aluminium head engine but with the extra expense. I just wanted a standard but good condition iron headed engine for the boat and saved a lot of money by rebuilding my existing engine myself. Parts availability for smaller/lighter stuff (than blocks and heads) was easy, I bought things like pistons and valves from RockAuto in the US and shipping was only a few days.

 

[Bondo]

I have a 1977 Carver Santa Cruz. It has the OE motor and Volvo Penta 280 outdrive. It was my grandfather's boat. I don't have a detailed history other than it's spent it's life in freshwater and supposedly the engine heads were "gone through" at some point in the past.

I'd like to pull the motor and go through it and rebuild it. Everything is currently stock. I am not looking for more speed or horsepower. I want reliability and fuel economy. Looking at more of a "endurance" build for trips and such. I have been trying to search around on the inter-webs for some resources, but I'm not really finding much for rebuilding a Ford V8 marine engine. I know there's a difference to marine engines and their components versus an automotive motor. I have repair manuals for the setup and all the original paperwork/manuals for the boat. Some advice and tips would be appreciated.

Ayuh,...... Have you done a compression / leak- down test on it,..??
What makes you think it needs to be rebuilt,..??

 

[ESGWheel]

I have a 1977 Carver Santa Cruz. It was my grandfather's boat.....
I'd like to pull the motor and go through it and rebuild it....

I had to look up what a 1977 Carver Santa Cruz was. Cool boat with a great personal history. And what a fun project. This is something you can pass along to your kids and keep this piece of history going. I am envious!

In brief there is really no difference in building a marine vs. non-marine engine. All the bits and pieces fit together the same. Main differences are freeze plugs and head gaskets need to be ‘marine’ (stainless steel). You already know about the component differences of manifolds, raw water pump, etc. But for the build, it’s the same.
Here are some tips for doing this fun project:

• Get an engine cradle. They are not that expensive, can get one for abt $50 and then sell it when done. You will not be sorry or rather you will be sorry if you do not have it Here is one: link
• Research and shop around for all the parts you will / may need. Start with and buying the ‘software’ > all the gaskets and seals needed. Sort thru it and make sure you have what is needed. Do not (yet) buy any of the bearings, rings, etc. (hardware). These may change dimensionally based on the findings of the condition of the engine.
• Shop around for a good machine shop. There are 2 general types IMO: those that are transaction based and those that take pride in their work. The differences are night and day. And the latter kind will gladly talk to you about your project and show off their shop. If they have a line hone machine, they are probably the latter.
• Have the machine shop dip or bake and wash the block and heads. Give them the crankshaft as well. They all have their own process, so let them do what they do. Working on a cleaned-up block and heads are the only way to go and it helps with the next step as well as build. They should tell you they will have to prime or finish paint it to preclude rusting before it gets back to you. That is expected so talk to them about it.
• Have the shop magnaflux the block and heads. No use in putting money into cracked block / heads until repaired or replaced.
• Line hone the block. While this is technically not necessary it fits into your strategy of reliability and endurance. It corrects / establishes the foundation of the engine.
• Establish a check points with the shop > post magnaflux and post dimensionally inspecting. Idea is this will give you a sense of what is needed in terms of budget and parts. Need to bore out the cylinders to twenty or thirty thou oversize? New oversize pistons are needed. However also establish a check point post this machining > they may think twenty will be enough but turns out thirty is needed. I.e., do not buy pistons, etc. until final machining is done. But since you have already done your homework on where to buy, once you know, you can go.
• Have the shop install the freeze plugs that you provide (marine) unless you are comfortable with doing that.
• Have the shop (or you) chase every threaded hole.
• Ensure you know the torque requirements of every nut and bolt. And have on hand quality torque wrenches that fit those profiles. Best to target a wrench to about ½ to ¾ the required. I.e., if required torque is 100 Ft lbs, use a 200 Ft lbs wrench. Map all of this out in advance of assembly. Else you will be scratching around for the needed torque and if like me, get frustrated and think that ok so 125 is good enough to keep going
• Use as good assembly lube and proper break in oil.

Most importantly, have fun doing this and if any kids or nieces / nephews available to help have them turning wrenches to build that legacy and pride!

 

[bluewavecaptain]

What I would do, and only if your manifolds are still good Is buy a crate 347 stroker and put that in or build yours into one. Keeps everything the same. Longer stroke will help your economy as it will make torque at a lower hp. If your manifolds are bad or anything else. Switch to GM with some new and used parts

I have to inspect the manifolds. They are the original "log style" manifolds. I don't suspect any issues with them, but I won't know until I pull the motor. The boat always ran like a Swiss watch. Even if it sat for a bit. The ONLY issue we ever noticed, was, if it was sitting for more than a few days, there'd be a bit of water sitting on the oil. Once it was fired up, the moisture would disappear. It never had any grey or white oil. Barely used oil. I'm hoping it's just a gasket issue somewhere or moisture getting into the motor. It's a Wisconsin boat, so temps are a bit cooler here.

I'll look into the 347 option. I'd rather try to keep the motor if I can. "Don't fix it if it's not broken." I'll know more once I break into it.

 

[bluewavecaptain]

I rebuilt my boat's 1996 Ford 302 engine.

In case you're interested the link below is to a thread I started around June last year after just buying the boat when I didn't even know for sure which engine it had. The thread goes through me lifting the engine, rebuilding it with new pistons, new valves etc, reinstalling it, but also a lot of other none engine related stuff... Be warned it's a long read and isn't all about the engine rebuild!

I personally did all the measuring, honing, fitted new pistons on the old rods, put it all back together, etc but I had a local machine shop skim the heads and fit new valves in them. The next thing I'll probably do regards the engine is rebuild the carb, already have the 2bbl Holley carb rebuild kit.

1996 Four Winns Sundowner with 5.0 Cobra engine and drive

Hello everyone, I'm a new member and this is my first post. I did look to see if there was an introductions thread but didn't find one, hope it's OK to dive in with this post. My username Lpgc is the same username I use on a few other car related forums, I convert vehicles to run on LPG...

forums.iboats.com

I'm in England so major parts availability like blocks and heads is nowhere near as good as you're likely to have if you're in the US and engine/blocks etc that are available tend to get bought up quickly by engine builder shops... I could buy a newly rebuilt engine easier than I could buy an engine from a vehicle dismantler. It's even easier to buy a modified/stroker/aluminium head engine but with the extra expense. I just wanted a standard but good condition iron headed engine for the boat and saved a lot of money by rebuilding my existing engine myself. Parts availability for smaller/lighter stuff (than blocks and heads) was easy, I bought things like pistons and valves from RockAuto in the US and shipping was only a few days.

I'll definitely give your thread a read! I actually really enjoy reading build and rebuild threads.

What you did is exactly what I'm aiming to do. I've been a gearhead all my life so attacking a motor is nothing new. I've rebuilt a few motors in my day, but all automotive. And being that my Carver has a single drive and motor, I don't want to muck it up. I live near Lake Michigan and reliability is a must on the big pond.

I agree with you on a good cast iron motor. As I mentioned, it ran like a Swiss watch, but it's very old. I'm mostly pulling and rebuilding for knowledge and peace of mind and a much needed refresh of at least gaskets, seals, and bearings. I just want to thoroughly go through the motor. Give the ole girl some TLC and new life. That's the plan at least.

 

[bluewavecaptain]

Ayuh,...... Have you done a compression / leak- down test on it,..??
What makes you think it needs to be rebuilt,..??

The age of the boat for one. The knowledge that my grandfather was a "shade-tree" mechanic who liked a cheap fix for two. And peace of mind. I will be using the boat on Lake Michigan a lot and with it being a single drive boat, I want some mental assurance. I know it could use new gaskets and a good cleaning and paint, so even if that's all I have to do, I'll know what I'm working with. If I'm pulling the motor to even do an inspection and gaskets, I might as well at least do a "refresh" on the motor.

 

[bluewavecaptain]

I had to look up what a 1977 Carver Santa Cruz was. Cool boat with a great personal history. And what a fun project. This is something you can pass along to your kids and keep this piece of history going. I am envious!

In brief there is really no difference in building a marine vs. non-marine engine. All the bits and pieces fit together the same. Main differences are freeze plugs and head gaskets need to be ‘marine’ (stainless steel). You already know about the component differences of manifolds, raw water pump, etc. But for the build, it’s the same.
Here are some tips for doing this fun project:

• Get an engine cradle. They are not that expensive, can get one for abt $50 and then sell it when done. You will not be sorry or rather you will be sorry if you do not have it Here is one: link
• Research and shop around for all the parts you will / may need. Start with and buying the ‘software’ > all the gaskets and seals needed. Sort thru it and make sure you have what is needed. Do not (yet) buy any of the bearings, rings, etc. (hardware). These may change dimensionally based on the findings of the condition of the engine.
• Shop around for a good machine shop. There are 2 general types IMO: those that are transaction based and those that take pride in their work. The differences are night and day. And the latter kind will gladly talk to you about your project and show off their shop. If they have a line hone machine, they are probably the latter.
• Have the machine shop dip or bake and wash the block and heads. Give them the crankshaft as well. They all have their own process, so let them do what they do. Working on a cleaned-up block and heads are the only way to go and it helps with the next step as well as build. They should tell you they will have to prime or finish paint it to preclude rusting before it gets back to you. That is expected so talk to them about it.
• Have the shop magnaflux the block and heads. No use in putting money into cracked block / heads until repaired or replaced.
• Line hone the block. While this is technically not necessary it fits into your strategy of reliability and endurance. It corrects / establishes the foundation of the engine.
• Establish a check points with the shop > post magnaflux and post dimensionally inspecting. Idea is this will give you a sense of what is needed in terms of budget and parts. Need to bore out the cylinders to twenty or thirty thou oversize? New oversize pistons are needed. However also establish a check point post this machining > they may think twenty will be enough but turns out thirty is needed. I.e., do not buy pistons, etc. until final machining is done. But since you have already done your homework on where to buy, once you know, you can go.
• Have the shop install the freeze plugs that you provide (marine) unless you are comfortable with doing that.
• Have the shop (or you) chase every threaded hole.
• Ensure you know the torque requirements of every nut and bolt. And have on hand quality torque wrenches that fit those profiles. Best to target a wrench to about ½ to ¾ the required. I.e., if required torque is 100 Ft lbs, use a 200 Ft lbs wrench. Map all of this out in advance of assembly. Else you will be scratching around for the needed torque and if like me, get frustrated and think that ok so 125 is good enough to keep going
• Use as good assembly lube and proper break in oil.

Most importantly, have fun doing this and if any kids or nieces / nephews available to help have them turning wrenches to build that legacy and pride!

ESGWheel, this is great information! Thank you very much! I'm going to save this information!