1976 Starcraft Mariner 21' Layout Changes? (v2)

[jonnyfish]

Hello Team Starcraft!

I've been here before but it's been a long while, back in 2016 I bought an old (76) Starcraft Mariner (21). While the transom was certainly worse for the ware, the rest of the boat was in great shape, so I pulled the trigger and took on the project. The transom project was tedius (for me) but I did manage to get it done, and it was a success. Beyond that, I built a rear casting deck that you'll see in the attached pictures, but that was it (I wanted to get to fishing). The boat did me well, it handles big water really well for a tin boat in my opinion, pulls pretty easily behind my mid sized truck, and is pretty easy in easy out at ramps. Beyond these traits the boat seems to have a lot of good mojo, we've caught a ton of great fish in it.

This last year, my motor gave up the ghost (a late 80s merc 2 stroke) and a rebuild on that motor seems like a poor investment, given what the motor is worth. I then got into the contemplation mode of selling the boat, and saving for a more modern boat. After a lot of time thinking and considering I landed back on how much I really do love this boat. If I were to change one thing on it I would give it a modern sized beam for stability, and redesign the splash well situation (a space hog). But truly beyond those two things, it's an awesome boat, and I'm willing to look past those items.

So now, I'm faced with a total rebuild situation, where I want to maximize the boat I have for the style of fishing I do (mainly casting, so lots of standing, and mobility). I wanted to ask this group, especially those well versed with older boat rebuilds, and this boat specifically, if it would be reasonable (and viable) for me to redesign the floor layout to be a single side console, rather than a center console. Currently, my center console takes up a bit more space than I'd like, it makes mobility between the front and the back a bit of a chore, and with my kids in the boat fishing bobbers it does become a challenge. My hope is to create a more open concept layout that allows me to move effortlessly between the front and the back of the boat, and also maximizes the boats real estate for 3 adults casting baits (currently a challenge).

So the question stands, does this hull design and shape lend itself to be able to support a single side console layout, rather than a center console layout? Should I have any concerns about taking on this approach in regards to how the boat sits in the water, as well as ensuring its properly balanced etc.

My intention is to fully strip the boat down, take out all current flooring and decking, take out whatever remains of the old styrofoam and truly begin from scratch. From pouring foam to rebuliding the flooring and decking with Marine Board HDPE, rebuilding the transom (again) using an HDPE product, etc. etc.

It's a big project, and potentially a big proposal, but I'd love to get some feedback from this group as the well of knowledge here is very deep.

Thank you for an advice you have!

 

[dingbat]

If the intent is to provide more floor space for fishing while maintaining 360 access to the gunnel, I'd get rid of the casting platforms. Leave the console in the center, but move it (console) back towards the stern a foot or so

 

[jonnyfish]

That's an interesting alternative I hadn't considered. I do feel like I need a casting platform of some sort, as casting without any elevation in this boat is a bit challenging when Musky fishing. But moving to a front only casting deck and making it huge is interesting.

 

[Moserkr]

In your drawing you pretty much penciled out a bass boat design. It should make no difference structurally if you moved the console to the side imo. Pour foam or sheet foam, wood or aluminum built, biggest question is a new motor if your old one is dead. New boats are $$$, new motors $$. Rebuild this one exactly how you want it, know every square inch of it, and put a new motor on it. Nothing better than knowing you built it and not having a payment attached.

After rebuilding my boat, I stumbled across tiny boat nation on the youtubes. Their construction with angled AL instead of wood was smart to keep weight down. Even more impressive was using a router on the hydroturf to make custom designs. But seeing as you want casting deck space, just on a larger level than their builds, it may give you some helpful ideas.

 

[alldodge]

You could get many more comments it the restro area. If you like I'll move it

 

[jonnyfish]

You could get many more comments it the restro area. If you like I'll move it

Sure that would be great!

 

[alldodge]

Done

 

[jonnyfish]

In your drawing you pretty much penciled out a bass boat design. It should make no difference structurally if you moved the console to the side imo. Pour foam or sheet foam, wood or aluminum built, biggest question is a new motor if your old one is dead. New boats are $$$, new motors $$. Rebuild this one exactly how you want it, know every square inch of it, and put a new motor on it. Nothing better than knowing you built it and not having a payment attached.

After rebuilding my boat, I stumbled across tiny boat nation on the youtubes. Their construction with angled AL instead of wood was smart to keep weight down. Even more impressive was using a router on the hydroturf to make custom designs. But seeing as you want casting deck space, just on a larger level than their builds, it may give you some helpful ideas.

Agree on the payments, not looking for the kind of debt a new boat would require. And nobody out there makes a deep v single console that seems easy to find. I took my layout from the lund musky pro v.

Thanks for your feedback! I'm excited to build the concept.
My main concerns are ensuring that the layout I choose will not cause a series of unwanted issues.

 

[Moserkr]

Luckily your hull is in good shape. Take the time to check and seal the rivets/seams. Replace the foam, floors, transom, console, and motor. With the right tools and time you could get it done pretty quick. You would have a brand new boat basically for 1/4 of the price of that musky pro v, and thats only IF you put a brand new motor on it.

 

[redneck joe]

Adding more stuff aka seats will not help with kids with bobbers. Navigating a center console seat should be low on the list of issues, imo.

Think thru your approach to accommodating kids now; every year they exponentially need less kid accomodations. Just like those tv shows where they are buying their forever home but are scared of stairs for the two year old. In two to three more years it becomes a non issue and if you are planning a total gut with new layout will it involve two year olds in 2026 and beyond? Or will you gut again to plan for you in a future years?

Dad bought a 21 MR new in 72 when i was six years old. Kept until i was about 10. I now, at 57, i own a 18 MR and would not consider adding a seat as it is usually just me and maybe the wife. Even when the kids start popping out grandkids i will not modify. Kids with hooks and bobber keeps me too busy to fish at the same time (we have several 'fake' grandkids plus we had four boys)

If you must modify i would suggest a starboard side drivers seat and on the port side make a smallish bench seat that doubles as storage. Small cushion on the gunwale as a backrest. Seat two or three kids.

My two pesos worth of opinion.

 

[jonnyfish]

Adding more stuff aka seats will not help with kids with bobbers. Navigating a center console seat should be low on the list of issues, imo.

Think thru your approach to accommodating kids now; every year they exponentially need less kid accomodations. Just like those tv shows where they are buying their forever home but are scared of stairs for the two year old. In two to three more years it becomes a non issue and if you are planning a total gut with new layout will it involve two year olds in 2026 and beyond? Or will you gut again to plan for you in a future years?

Dad bought a 21 MR new in 72 when i was six years old. Kept until i was about 10. I now, at 57, i own a 18 MR and would not consider adding a seat as it is usually just me and maybe the wife. Even when the kids start popping out grandkids i will not modify. Kids with hooks and bobber keeps me too busy to fish at the same time (we have several 'fake' grandkids plus we had four boys)

If you must modify i would suggest a starboard side drivers seat and on the port side make a smallish bench seat that doubles as storage. Small cushion on the gunwale as a backrest. Seat two or three kids.

My two pesos worth of opinion.

Fair points, the kids won't be small forever that's for sure!

All good points and suggestions here, thank you for your feedback you've given me plenty to consider.

 

[Scott Danforth]

as casting without any elevation in this boat is a bit challenging when Musky fishing. But moving to a front only casting deck and making it huge is interesting.

I have a good friend from Highschool that has his bow setup with an insert to convert from bow seating to a casting deck. its nothing more than a filler piece with a seat pedestal base on one side. install one way for a bow seat, flip it over if you want a casting deck, remove it for two people to sit up in front.

He would prefer a center console vs his dual console now.


he currently catches more musky out of an old 18' fishing boat than most "professionals" do out of $150k rigs
Then again, he designs and makes musky baits.

did some quick screen shots below

 

[roscoe]

I rebuilt my MR 18, 12 years ago.

I am currently doing some mods to it.
As the 18 is narrower than the 21, I too find it very difficult to get from aft to bow .
I am moving the console to starboard side, and 34" toward the bow.
Also moving batteries forward, under the drivers seat.
The under console fuel tank replaced with 48" x 11" x 11" tank, boxed in along port side. The top of which will be a foot rest/tool stash, and have a 48" bump board.

So, weight moved forward for balance, and to the sides, creating an open 9' space down the center, and a 34" x 25" walkway along the console, and a 6" high 4' long front deck with removable captains chair. Also have two additional arm chairs for the rear open floor, for those days when I need to take pops walleye fishing.

Be careful what you decide on for floor/deck materials. Some choices will be very heavy, and costly, difficult to work with, or flex under load.
I used 5/8" ply properly sealed, then glued marine vinyl on top. Would do it again if I had to.

 

[jonnyfish]

I have a good friend from Highschool that has his bow setup with an insert to convert from bow seating to a casting deck. its nothing more than a filler piece with a seat pedestal base on one side. install one way for a bow seat, flip it over if you want a casting deck, remove it for two people to sit up in front.

He would prefer a center console vs his dual console now.


he currently catches more musky out of an old 18' fishing boat than most "professionals" do out of $150k rigs
Then again, he designs and makes musky baits.

did some quick screen shots below

View attachment 393930View attachment 393931

That's awesome! I feel like I know those baits, I too run a small fishing company focused on muskies. And I too am totally ignored at the ramps in my current tin bucket. Not a bad thing honestly.

 

[jonnyfish]

I rebuilt my MR 18, 12 years ago.

I am currently doing some mods to it.
As the 18 is narrower than the 21, I too find it very difficult to get from aft to bow .
I am moving the console to starboard side, and 34" toward the bow.
Also moving batteries forward, under the drivers seat.
The under console fuel tank replaced with 48" x 11" x 11" tank, boxed in along port side. The top of which will be a foot rest/tool stash, and have a 48" bump board.

So, weight moved forward for balance, and to the sides, creating an open 9' space down the center, and a 34" x 25" walkway along the console, and a 6" high 4' long front deck with removable captains chair. Also have two additional arm chairs for the rear open floor, for those days when I need to take pops walleye fishing.

Be careful what you decide on for floor/deck materials. Some choices will be very heavy, and costly, difficult to work with, or flex under load.
I used 5/8" ply properly sealed, then glued marine vinyl on top. Would do it again if I had to.

Sounds like we are thinking along the same lines! I'm open regarding which floor/deck material to work with, but i'm certainly leaning toward aluminum if I can source it well. It would help keep weight down (and top speed up). Granted I rarely run over 4000 RPM, but I also know moving to a 4 stroke from a 2 stroke i'm going to lose some of that 2 stroke muscle that I got used to.

 

[Scott Danforth]

That's awesome! I feel like I know those baits, I too run a small fishing company focused on muskies. And I too am totally ignored at the ramps in my current tin bucket. Not a bad thing honestly.

Its called "The Bomb" currently being marketed by Figure 8. I have known Chuck for nearly 50 years..

He did a charter thing for about 5 years (Summer School) as he is a teacher by trade. however got tired of people. he now just fishes for the thrill of winning Musky Tourneys

 

[redneck joe]

I rebuilt my MR 18, 12 years ago.

I am currently doing some mods to it.
As the 18 is narrower than the 21, I too find it very difficult to get from aft to bow .
I am moving the console to starboard side, and 34" toward the bow.
Also moving batteries forward, under the drivers seat.
The under console fuel tank replaced with 48" x 11" x 11" tank, boxed in along port side. The top of which will be a foot rest/tool stash, and have a 48" bump board.

So, weight moved forward for balance, and to the sides, creating an open 9' space down the center, and a 34" x 25" walkway along the console, and a 6" high 4' long front deck with removable captains chair. Also have two additional arm chairs for the rear open floor, for those days when I need to take pops walleye fishing.

Be careful what you decide on for floor/deck materials. Some choices will be very heavy, and costly, difficult to work with, or flex under load.
I used 5/8" ply properly sealed, then glued marine vinyl on top. Would do it again if I had to.

ive thought of moving stuff as well, but keeping the center console. The 21 had the console well forward relative to the the 18 per brochure Definitely battery up front and a belly tank.


What hp you running?

 

[redneck joe]

I rarely run over 4000 RPM, but I also know moving to a 4 stroke from a 2 stroke i'm going to lose some of that 2 stroke muscle that I got used to.

Why switching and what hp?

 

[Scott Danforth]

Granted I rarely run over 4000 RPM,

didnt catch this before. why are you lugging the motor. let that thing sing.

 

[jonnyfish]

didnt catch this before. why are you lugging the motor. let that thing sing.

Truthfully running over 4000rpm it started to sound labored / bad. probably a sign of things that i should have taken more seriously before the piston ring blew.
And regarding 2 stroke vs 4 stroke. i'm looking for more fuel economy, and a more modern motor over all. i'm ok losing the 2 stroke power in favor of better fuel economy and not dealing with carborated engines anymore.
I've had a few people mention the newer Evinrude 2 strokes that aren't carbed, but i'm pretty hesitant to get into an Evinrude.
Regarding HP, i'm looking to max the rig out, so 140hp would be ideal. I've heard honda's are pretty heavy, so the target would be a Suzuki. It's either that or power down to a 115 Yamaha, which i've heard great things about, but that would be my second choice to a 140hp Suzuki I think.