1976 4hp Johnson 4R76M Lower Piston Seized.

cprodave

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Hi All,
Around 3 years ago for $200 I bought a used freshwater 4hp Johnson 4R76M which (in hindsight) probably had some bad (water in) gas. The motor ran for a few minutes, then started making a hellacious noise and then quit. At the time I really didn?t have time to work on it (my father had recently passed away, moving our mother to nursing home, etc) but now I am ready to roll up my sleeves (recently retired!) and see if I can fix it myself. I have stored the motor ?pistons up? with WD40 and 2cycle oil applied liberally through the spark plug holes. Yesterday I removed the head with only 1 bolt (left middle) that was a bit difficult to remove?due to some rust that other 5 bolts did not have. Using the rope pull start to confirm that the Flywheel should run clockwise (viewed from overhead), if I rotate the flywheel manually clockwise (starting with the Flywheel as far counterclockwise as possible, i.e. into the seized position) then I observe the following: 1) pistons are both in middle position 2) upper piston comes out/up to TopDeadCenter position 3) upper piston goes to in/down position and will not rotate clockwise any further.
Here are my questions: if I elect to try unseizing the lower piston with a stout dowel rod and light hammer taps then what position should I have the upper piston in when I tap the lower piston? Should I prelube with 50/50 TransmissionFluid/acetone? Any other tips short of full disassembly/rebuild?

There is no scoring or damage in the upper cylinder wall nor in the visible portion of the lower cylinder wall .

I know the proper/lowest-risk way to get the motor running again is to disassemble the power head, replace rings/piston/gaskets as necessary, but I am unsure that I have the time or skills to DIY. And my 2 most trustworthy mechanics have told me they?d have to charge me more than the motor is worth. So I am inclined to try quick-and-dirty, then if it doesn?t work just part-out to recover my $200. Thanks for any input.
 

cprodave

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IPhotos added:
 

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racerone

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Sounds like one connecting rod broke.----The motor must be taken apart.-----There is no alternative.------Simple nuts and bolts work.
 

Crosbyman

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quick & dirty....

I freed up a my stuck 9.5 with a wood peg and a hammer . try soaking the cyl wall again to loosen things up and start hitting the top cyl till you see a small movement (mark of the side of the flywheel as a referrence)

​ if it moves.... try the bottom cyl then the top again .... keep alternating take your time keep soaking things up

​if you remove the carb and reeds peek inside with a camera probe...check for major problems inside if possible

​if OK try to spray the back side of the piston walls with oil (PB Blaster)

keep hammering with a pegg....firmly but not excessively and hopefully one day ... happiness

​my 9.5 works like a charm now
 

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racerone

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Is the poster not saying that the bottom piston is not moving !
 

F_R

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No doubt about it, it has tossed a rod. No cure except tear it down and rebuild it. If the damage isn't too great that is. It just might be a junker.
 

racerone

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The pictures also clearly show the piston where it should not be !
 

cprodave

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Thanks all for input. Would water in the gas cause a rod to break?
 

F_R

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I suppose somebody could make a case for that theory. But I say extremely unlikely. On the other hand, water in the crankcase probably caused it, however it got there. Common causes are blown head gasket, leaking exhaust cover gasket, leaking gasket at lower crankshaft area...or turning the motor upside down or submersion.
 

Crosbyman

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yep.... just noticed :cold: the open side intake ports and lower cyl unmoved :Cry:
 

cprodave

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Thanks all for reaching the conclusion that a broken rod is the problem. I will start the teardown and rebuild process today. The best video I have found for this is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMEXjofqbdM (Small Girl Rebuilds Small Outboard, 2-stroke Johnson 15 hp). This is a great video but "starting point" is with powerhead already removed and disassembled.

Does anyone know any other good videos that would help me?

Also, where is a good overall schematic for this engine? I see plenty of subassembly schematics ( carburetor, crankshaft and piston, cylinder and crankcase, etc) but not an overall schematic (although I realize this might be too "busy"/large, impossible to draw/read). So I will take a few photos before/during disassembling to reduce the probability that I won't be able to reassemble again.

Any other tips before I tear into this job?
 

Crosbyman

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The Powerhead section of the Johnson service manual for oldies may not cover the 4R76 specifically but it contains tons of pics and comment on working on the powerheads of various engines

​the 4hp twin cyl is a close cousin to the lesser JWs

​you may wan tto take a peek at the general suggestions on "how to" work powerheads pages 185 and up

http://boatinfo.no/lib/johnson/manuals/1922-1964johnson.html#/0

the parts schematic can be found on that parts place we all look at ...
 

gm280

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Don't pound on anything. Even a broken con rod can do serious damage to the lower section of the cylinder if you pound away. So do things with a little finesse and save doing anymore damage. JMHO
 

oldboat1

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Alternatively, 4 hp powerheads from about '69 through '78 should work for replacements. Or maybe a sister motor out there needs your good l.u. Always options.
 

cprodave

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Crosbyman, thanks for the Service Manual--lots of good info for me to use there! Wow..didn't think I could get my hands on this manual so easily. thanks a million.

GM280, thanks for the reminder to not pound on anything without understanding the downside. As a kid I was fortunate that my dad taught me to not do that--he was a US Navy aircraft machine gun mechanic and camera technician in WW2, then a professional photographer. He taught me "if you force it you will probably break it". He lived to almost 94...I sure do miss him.

Oldboat1--I will see how the rebuild attempt goes, for sure I will keep in mind a replacement powerhead or selling my lower unit. Good to know I can use '69 through '78.

BTW I really like these old OMC's, in addition to this 1976 4hp Johnson I have a 1969 6hp Johnson and an Evinrude E4RESR (this is a Belgium-made, 1990 I think). I am lucky to have a rknowledgeable, reliable and not expensive local mechanic, but I worry that someday he is going to retire. Then I could be "on my own"..

Thanks to all.
 

Crosbyman

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Being on your own ain't bad that is how you learn. I still put my foot in my mouth on occasions when I don't look closely at pictures but all in all, the folks on here will guide you along. Folks like FR, Garry and others have guided me along for a few years now . Some have even sent me parts as I have shipped some out free ​(except postage :)​)

​I have never cracked open an oldy yet (mine have all been good workable purchases...so far) your 4R76 should be a good experience

I haven't been to succesful printing from that boatinfo site. I was lucky enough to grab it in PDF format when it was still available. I also have it in print which I split in two books with a spring binding. It is my bible now :joyous:

​My dad passed away at 93.... He was part of the U.S. led Aleutian Kiska expedition (invasion ):laser: with the Canadian army division. All the japs had escaped the island 3 days before :noidea:
 

cprodave

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I successfully removed the flywheel using the "light taps" procedure (while lifting on the flywheel after main nut loosened) on page 13 of the Service Manual. Now I can't figure out how to remove the magneto assembly from the engine block and crankshaft. Is there only 1 anchor screw fastening the Armature Plate and Post to the Engine Block? In my attached photo is the anchor screw to the left of the crankshaft? I am probably being overly cautious but don't want to break anything during disassembly. I looked on Youtube and saw only 1 semi-useful video (and it had a lot of hammer useage!) but it appeared to have 3 screws fastening the Armature Plate to the engine block. Although a slightly different 4hp OMC engine. My photo attached...thanks in advance.
 

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F_R

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Four Screws. Phillips head. Two through the coils and two more hunkered down in there between the points and condensers. You don't have to completely remove them, just turn them out a number of turns till they release.
 

cprodave

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Crosbyman, yes I agree the folks on this forum have been extremely helpful. Also I look forward every day to working on this old motor. I work a lot on lawnmowers, gas blowers, weedwackers etc but mostly just fuel and carburetor problems. So I am going "deeper than normal" on this outboard. Thanks also for the story on your dad. The fact that so many young men in that generation ventured into the unknown to protect our freedom is something that really "grips" me deeply. .

F_R: thanks for the tip, I got the Armature/Magneto off "no problem". Now I am stuck about removing 3 flathead screws 0332070 that hold Support (plate/ring) 0303278 . Please see photo. Is it possible that factory Loctited (or similar adhesive) these screws in-place? If so, do I dissolve with vinegar, etc? Or apply heat gun to portion of cylinder /crankcase block , then put ice cube on the screwheads? What are details in Note 0304442?

Also one other question: I noticed one of the sparkplug wires is marked "UP". I am presuming this means Upper Cylinder/Piston. If the 2 spark plug wires were accidentally reversed could this have broken a Rod? At least 1 of my 2 trusted mechanics told me that reversing the wires shouldn't be a problem. But if readers on this forum advise that reversing wires could in fact break a Rod, then I will accept "Knucklehead of the Year" award (although I might share the award with my mechanic(s)!
 

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racerone

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With the wires reversed the motor would not run at all !----The 3 screws should be removed with a hammer / impact screwdriver.----Works every time for me.
 
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