1975 9.9 sea horse

[OptsyEagle]

you mentioned that the plugs must be firing at bottom dead center?? How is that possible the motor can’t be 180 out, unless the keyway is sheered. But when I put the new keyway in it only whent in one way and corrected the 180 out… please correct me if I’m wrong I’m just confused as to what is going on with this motor at this point.

If the wires from the flywheel to the coils are switched, where coil for cylinder #1 is actually going to cylinder #2 and vise-versa, your spark would be firing at precisely the wrong time, at bottom dead center on both cylinders. You would get almost nothing from the engine in that condition. The fact that you said the engine popped a couple of times makes me wonder if this may be 1 of a couple of problems you might have. Especially if it did not pop with the spark plug wires the other way.

 

[tphoyt]

What’s with all the metal dust around the coils.
If the stuff is on the points they are far from clean.

 

[jimmbo]

Looks a little Oily too.

 

[Garner51]

A 2 stroke engine requires 3 things to run;
1: Fuel and Air, in the Proper Portions
2: Compression, in the Crankcase, to get the Air-Fuel to the Combustion Chamber, and in the Combustion Chamber
3: A spark at the correct time

Your Engine is deficient in at least One of these Items. More Troubleshooting is required

As far as I know it’s in time you guys helped me with that a lotso that would make it spark at the correct time but somehow it’s still not hitting and I’ve adjusted the air to fuel ratio that’s why I was wondering if maybe the plugs were firing backwards. But when it’s at TDC the timing marks line up. It’s all nice and neat like it’s supposed to be until you go pull the rope. it’s a stump….. I wish I could upload a video you would see i almost feel as if I’m forgetting a step with this thing haha

 

[Garner51]

If the wires from the flywheel to the coils are switched, where coil for cylinder #1 is actually going to cylinder #2 and vise-versa, your spark would be firing at precisely the wrong time, at bottom dead center on both cylinders. You would get almost nothing from the engine in that condition. The fact that you said the engine popped a couple of times makes me wonder if this may be 1 of a couple of problems you might have. Especially if it did not pop with the spark plug wires the other way.

I will give that a look and upload a picture here shortly. Without you guys. This Johnson was headed to the scrap yard I’m not ready to give up on it yet!! I’m gonna clean up the armature plate for you guys first and I’ll upload a picture

 

[jimmbo]

You have been focusing pretty much on the Ignition System. What do the Plugs look like? Wet, Oily, dry Carbon? I am asking in order to determine of Fuel is getting to the Cylinder, through the Crankcase. You could remove both plugs, ground the Leads, and pull the Starter Cord repeatedly, have someone watch to see if a Fuel Mist is being expelled from the Plug Holes?

 

[Garner51]

You have been focusing pretty much on the Ignition System. What do the Plugs look like? Wet, Oily, dry Carbon? I am asking in order to determine of Fuel is getting to the Cylinder, through the Crankcase. You could remove both plugs, ground the Leads, and pull the Starter Cord repeatedly, have someone watch to see if a Fuel Mist is being expelled from the Plug Holes?

Yes I have been actually. But to answer that question they’re wet. But not carbon buildup or anything else, I can go crank it 3-4 times pull a plug and burn the excess gas off.

 

[Garner51]

That’s the top view I’m not sure how to tell if they are wired correctly or not but I just replaced the one coil so all I had to do was connect the one male to female end and that was that. Maybe y’all can help with that. Don’t mind the granddaddy long leg lol. He’s helping me troubleshoot also.

 

[jimmbo]

Okay. A few post back I had asked if the Spark could jump a 5/16" gap. I know 5/16" is far wider than the 0.030" plug gap, about 10.5 times greater. Thing is, under Hi Pressure that 0.030" gap, has the Resistance of about a 3/16" gap at 14.7 lbs, which is why large Gaps are required for Spark Tests.
You can build a Spark Tester using a couple of Nails, and block of Dry Wood, and a couple of feet of wire.

The area under the Flywheel looks quite Wet, which might be interfering with the Ignition System. That Ignition System is known as the Low Tension Magneto. It require both set of Points to be Clean and conductive in order for a Spark to occur. I would be dousing it with Brake Cleaner, and getting everything dry and clean. A bit of Lube for the Cam can be wiped on the Cam, and the Sponge jammed in there will catch any excess and reapply as time goes by. Regarding all the Wetness, I always have concerns regarding the Upper Crankshaft Seal, cause if Oil is being pushed past it, Air is certainly getting sucked in

 

[Garner51]

View attachment 384587
That’s the top view I’m not sure how to tell if they are wired correctly or not but I just replaced the one coil so all I had to do was connect the one male to female end and that was that. I’ve also got out here tonight and had it hit a couple times just spraying gas down the neck of the carb but not enough to amount to anything

 

[Garner51]

Okay. A few post back I had asked if the Spark could jump a 5/16" gap. I know 5/16" is far wider than the 0.030" plug gap, about 10.5 times greater. Thing is, under Hi Pressure that 0.030" gap, has the Resistance of about a 3/16" gap at 14.7 lbs, which is why large Gaps are required for Spark Tests.
You can build a Spark Tester using a couple of Nails, and block of Dry Wood, and a couple of feet of wire.

The area under the Flywheel looks quite Wet, which might be interfering with the Ignition System. That Ignition System is known as the Low Tension Magneto. It require both set of Points to be Clean and conductive in order for a Spark to occur. I would be dousing it with Brake Cleaner, and getting everything dry and clean. A bit of Lube for the Cam can be wiped on the Cam, and the Sponge jammed in there will catch any excess and reapply as time goes by. Regarding all the Wetness, I always have concerns regarding the Upper Crankshaft Seal, cause if Oil is being pushed past it, Air is certainly getting sucked in

I’ll clean it up first thing in the morning when I can see what I doing but I’ll let you be the judge of my spark. I think that’s plenty of spark. That’s plug #1

 

[tphoyt]

Maybe it’s just me but your spark is very yellow and looks weak. A good cleaning of the points and everything else around them may just get you going.

 

[racerone]

Does spark jump a gap of 5/16" , yes or no ?-----Using a spark plug to test for strong spark is a waste of time.

 

[OptsyEagle]

Here is a homemade spark tester that I got from Leeroy's ramblings that is made out of a piece of wood and 4 nuts with 2 bolts, with a metal plate for the ground wire. I made one identical and it works great. You can see both sparks alternating at the same time. Black tape at the back helps.

I imagine you could take a multimeter and measure continuity from each point set to each coil clip but first you would need to know which point set runs which cylinder and unfortuneately I have no idea, but I imagine some smarter dudes here probably do. Since one coil was missing perhaps that person unclipped both then took the one they wanted and re-clipped the other back up wrong. Can't say for sure but when you said one coil was missing what I heard was that someone was playing with those coil clips. All your symptons are reflective of those coils being switched and sending their sparks to the wrong cylinders, is all I am saying.

 

[racerone]

Maybe the driver coil is KAPUT , needs to be tested.

 

[Garner51]

Does spark jump a gap of 5/16" , yes or no ?-----Using a spark plug to test for strong spark is a waste of time.

I have not built a gap tester yet, i just done that for you guys last night and it would shoot a strong blue spark but hang on I’ll dig mine out

 

[Garner51]

Here is a homemade spark tester that I got from Leeroy's ramblings that is made out of a piece of wood and 4 nuts with 2 bolts, with a metal plate for the ground wire. I made one identical and it works great. You can see both sparks alternating at the same time. Black tape at the back helps.

I imagine you could take a multimeter and measure continuity from each point set to each coil clip but first you would need to know which point set runs which cylinder and unfortuneately I have no idea, but I imagine some smarter dudes here probably do. Since one coil was missing perhaps that person unclipped both then took the one they wanted and re-clipped the other back up wrong. Can't say for sure but when you said one coil was missing what I heard was that someone was playing with those coil clips. All your symptons are reflective of those coils being switched and sending their sparks to the wrong cylinders, is all I am saying.

Let me dig my tester out and see what I can find out to be exact.. and if nothing else I’ll switch the coil wires back????……

 

[Garner51]

Alright so I am getting the 5/16 spark that you believe that I need and the coil hookup wires can only go one way not vise versa I guess Johnson made them so whoever was working on it made it idiot proof so you wouldn’t have it wired backwards “you can flip the ends but then you know for sure the wires are backwards”

 

[racerone]

We do not " believe " that.----We know that an ignition system in good condition can easily do that !!----Now that you have established that ignition components are good , you can look for other issues !

 

[Garner51]

Once again this morning with the gas in the neck of the carb I got it to hit a couple times a puff smoke so we’re on the right track guys the little motor is just inches from having life and I can sense it. I’ll have the drill turning the flywheel and it’ll crank and crank then at once it’ll free crank like it’s hitting then it’s stopped