1972 OMC 225 Tilt not working

[Panhandle Nick]

Hello,

First time asking a question. Hope this is the right forum. I replaced a broken pin that fits in the slot on the worm gear. The trim motor works and spins the spur gear clockwise and counter clockwise. But.....when I attached the tilt quadrant gear to the out drive engaging the spur gear, I can hear the motor running but it does not lift the outdrive. I can turn the spur gear by hand when the quadrant gear is not bolted on, I can also lift by hand the outdrive and lower it(it moves freely). I'm curious as a side note how the outdrive is held in any particular position, for example if I used the trim switch to raise is 15 degrees, what makes it hold in that position? Does it have to do with the clutch inside the clutch housing? Anyway that's a side question. I don't want to unbolt the trim motor from inside the boat (looks like a tough to get to area) if I don't have to. But if something is wrong I don't understand why the spur gear spins both directions as it should, but won't lift the outdrive. Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Bondo]

Ayuh,..... Welcome Aboard,..... If the clutch is stripped out, yer seein' the results, 'n ya, it's the clutch that holds it up,.....
Btw,..... It's a Tilt, 'n tilt only,.....
If you use it for Trim, you'll ruin the ball gears, 'n the tilt clutch,.....

 

[Panhandle Nick]

Ayuh,..... Welcome Aboard,..... If the clutch is stripped out, yer seein' the results, 'n ya, it's the clutch that holds it up,.....
Btw,..... It's a Tilt, 'n tilt only,.....
If you use it for Trim, you'll ruin the ball gears, 'n the tilt clutch,.....

Ok so my main reason for tilting it is to lower it to test the main motor. But you're saying something is stripped? What do you think it is? The shear pin is good the spur gear rotates.

 

[Panhandle Nick]

Ayuh,..... Welcome Aboard,..... If the clutch is stripped out, yer seein' the results, 'n ya, it's the clutch that holds it up,.....
Btw,..... It's a Tilt, 'n tilt only,.....
If you use it for Trim, you'll ruin the ball gears, 'n the tilt clutch,.....

Is it possible that the spur gear can rotate, but under load as in when the tilt quadrant gear is meshed, that weight is too much for the motor? Perhaps i reassemble the clutch components wrong when i put them back in the housing?

 

[kenny nunez]

There is a snap ring that holds the clutch pack and bell vill spring washers together. The only way that the snap ring can be installed is with a piece of 1 1/4” pipe about 2” long with about 1/3 of one side cut away for access to properly install the snap ring. Also the ring has a flat and rounded side, be sure the flat side facing away from the clutch pack and the brass worm ring is holding the clutch pack outer ears in alignment.
It would be a good idea for you to get a service manual, all of the electric shift drives from 69-72 are the same with only 2 different gear ratios.
4 and V6 were the same and V8 had it’s own.
The intermediate housings were the same for all models.

 

[Panhandle Nick]

There is a snap ring that holds the clutch pack and bell vill spring washers together. The only way that the snap ring can be installed is with a piece of 1 1/4” pipe about 2” long with about 1/3 of one side cut away for access to properly install the snap ring. Also the ring has a flat and rounded side, be sure the flat side facing away from the clutch pack and the brass worm ring is holding the clutch pack outer ears in alignment.
It would be a good idea for you to get a service manual, all of the electric shift drives from 69-72 are the same with only 2 different gear ratios.
4 and V6 were the same and V8 had it’s own.
The intermediate housings were the same for all models.

Ok thanks. I reinstalled that snap ring but did nt have to use that tool or home made tool. Perhaps the snap ring didn't fully fall into the slot. Or i had one of the washers facing the wrong way? I do have a manual but it's not detailed enough.

 

[Panhandle Nick]

Hi Kenny,

One other thing. Can i get to the hammer blow coupling from the outer housing. Or do i have to get to it by removing the tilt motor. I can't see how the clutch locks the spur gear in any particular location. When I think of a clutch I think of some sort of centrifugal force that engages it.

 

[kenny nunez]

If the motor is working as you said then you should not have to remove it. The hammer blow coupling can only be removed with the tilt motor out of the way.
If you can install the snap ring without a press or large vice then there are some parts missing. Try to get a parts manual. Is your service manual a genuine OMC edition?

 

[Panhandle Nick]

If the motor is working as you said then you should not have to remove it. The hammer blow coupling can only be removed with the tilt motor out of the way.
If you can install the snap ring without a press or large vice then there are some parts missing. Try to get a parts manual. Is your service manual a genuine OMC edition?

Hi Kenny, so in my manual out has an intermediate housing exploded view, the area that concerns me just says tilt clutch assembly. No real breakdown. I have the washers without her teeth and I have the washers with inner teeth and the thrust washers that are cupped. Perhaps I'm supposed to let the motor run longer until it grips the clutch and raises the outdrive. I can rotate the spur gear by hand and visually see that the worm gear is not turning I did this with the clutch housing cover off.

 

[Panhandle Nick]

Here's some pictures of the clutch assembly.

 

[kenny nunez]

It is not supposed to slip like the way you are describing. There are some parts missing. The snap ring almost looks like it may not be the original. Is it as thick as the groove it mounts in? The one that fits in there from the factory has a very tight fit in the groove and as I posted before the bell vill springs have to be compressed to fit the snap ring in place.
Very good pictures, try to get the original OMC service manual.

 

[Panhandle Nick]

It is not supposed to slip like the way you are describing. There are some parts missing. The snap ring almost looks like it may not be the original. Is it as thick as the groove it mounts in? The one that fits in there from the factory has a very tight fit in the groove and as I posted before the bell vill springs have to be compressed to fit the snap ring in place.
Very good pictures, try to get the original OMC service manual.

Hi Kenny, it's possible I put the snap ring for the spur gear in that slot accidentally. As for missing parts. I don't know, I'll track down a good manual. Perhaps a shim is needed to tighten up the pressure on the bell vill springs. I was a BM2 on the USS New Jersey in the early 80s. We're you in the navy?

 

[kenny nunez]

Oh a Deck Ape! I was on the Iwo Jima from 1-66 to 1-69 then 2-69 to 8-69 on the Sedgwick County 1123 , snipe EN2. We performed logistics supporting the PBR boats in the Mekong Delta rivers that spring through summer in 69. Our home base was Vung Tau then.
Remember seeing the NJ a few times. I am pretty sure we may have been in Subic while it was there.
The Lt. Commander is something the site does and the longer people are on the site the more rank they give.
No wonder you are having trouble, the only tools a BM ever could use was a paint scraper, chipping hammer & a paint brush!
Was the tilt system in this condition when you started working on the boat? The snap ring that goes in the groove is about 1/8” thick. I think I found one in my left over stash from when I had my shop. It is used but it appears to be 7/8” I. D. and real rounded on one side. If you have one that you think is the correct size try squeezing it tighter. There are shims on the opposite side under the large snap ring that may be missing. The main thing is it has to be assembled in the compressed position. If you do not have a large enough vise you might be able to squeeze it together with 3 pairs of large vice grips. If you need another snap ring you might be able to locate one at a NAPA store. Crowley Marine also has a stock of OMC obsolete parts.
If you need more help my cell, 504 427 6905.

 

[Panhandle Nick]

Oh a Deck Ape! I was on the Iwo Jima from 1-66 to 1-69 then 2-69 to 8-69 on the Sedgwick County 1123 , snipe EN2. We performed logistics supporting the PBR boats in the Mekong Delta rivers that spring through summer in 69. Our home base was Vung Tau then.
Remember seeing the NJ a few times. I am pretty sure we may have been in Subic while it was there.
No wonder you are having trouble, the only tools a BM ever could use was a paint scraper and a paint brush!

That might be my problem yes, i was on the Iwo Jima. For about a week. It was the medical support when the Marine barracks were hit in october. I got on the ship, the day before the bombing.

 

[kenny nunez]

The Iwo came here to New Orleans for Mardi Gras in 93 and I got to go on board with my son and was able to take him all over the ship. The guys in the boat shop told me about the upcoming de commission. We went to Norfolk for it and had dinner with the Captain who was on it when I was.
I understand that the boiler room explosion killed everyone who was down there the year before.

 

[Panhandle Nick]

The Iwo came here to New Orleans for Mardi Gras in 93 and I got to go on board with my son and was able to take him all over the ship. The guys in the boat shop told me about the upcoming de commission. We went to Norfolk for it and had dinner with the Captain who was on it when I was.
I understand that the boiler room explosion killed everyone who was down there the year before.

Wow, i hadn't heard about the explosion. I knew about the one on the Iowa. In the Turret. I was a primer man in turret two on the Jersey. I saved some of the spent primers when we bombarded them with the 16's. One the boat front, i got the tilt working. Did what you said and it worked. I tilted it down, then when i wanted to tilt back up, i just hear a click on the relay. I'm going to unbolt the tilt quadrant again and see if it works with no load.

 

[kenny nunez]

It may be possible that the tilt motor could be some of the problem.
The brushes may be either stuck or worn down and not contacting the commutator and arcing which also eats up the segments. The motor is
Sierra # 18-6754. Also 18-0917 gasket. A short 3/8” 12 point box end wrench is the best tool to R&R the motor. There is a nylon washer on both sides of the hammer blow coupling to keep it centered.
This must be a fresh water boat because the OMCs were pretty well used up after 15- 20 years around here.
I was able to visit the Wisconsin in Norfolk and crawled around in the turret, not a lot of room to move around.

 

[Panhandle Nick]

It may be possible that the tilt motor could be some of the problem.
The brushes may be either stuck or worn down and not contacting the commutator and arcing which also eats up the segments. The motor is
Sierra # 18-6754. Also 18-0917 gasket. A short 3/8” 12 point box end wrench is the best tool to R&R the motor. There is a nylon washer on both sides of the hammer blow coupling to keep it centered.
This must be a fresh water boat because the OMCs were pretty well used up after 15- 20 years around here.
I was able to visit the Wisconsin in Norfolk and crawled around in the turret, not a lot of room to move around.

Hi Kenny,

Yes it's a Fiberform made across the border from me in Spokane Wa. It's in great shape. I bought it from a person that had it stored for a couple of years but properly winterized.

 

[Panhandle Nick]

It may be possible that the tilt motor could be some of the problem.
The brushes may be either stuck or worn down and not contacting the commutator and arcing which also eats up the segments. The motor is
Sierra # 18-6754. Also 18-0917 gasket. A short 3/8” 12 point box end wrench is the best tool to R&R the motor. There is a nylon washer on both sides of the hammer blow coupling to keep it centered.
This must be a fresh water boat because the OMCs were pretty well used up after 15- 20 years around here.
I was able to visit the Wisconsin in Norfolk and crawled around in the turret, not a lot of room to move around.

Could it also be the relay that's clicking. A bad relay?