1970 EVINRUDE 60ESL/ WEAK SPARK/ EVERYONE IS STUMPED!

jjoediv

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I HAVE REPLACED EVERYTHING EXCEPT STATOR AND COIL ON MY IN LINE 3 CYLINDER. I HAVE BROUGHT IT TO 2 MARINAS AND SPENT $1100 TO NO AVAIL. I HAVE HEARD OF SOME STATOR PROBLEM INVOLVING CORROSION OF TIMING PICKUPS. SOME MORE INF IS THAT I USED AN AUTOMOTIVE STARTER RELAY AND ALSO HAD TO REPLACE WIRE GOING TO HYDRO SHIFT IN LOWER UNIT, I USED AN EXTENTION CORD.I WAS TOLD THAT THE COIL WAS CHECKED AND WAS GOOD , THE FLYWHEEL WILL HOLD A MEDIUM SCREWDRIVER SO THERE IS MAGNETIC CHARGE THERE. PLEASE HELP ME!
 

ledgefinder

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Re: 1970 EVINRUDE 60ESL/ WEAK SPARK/ EVERYONE IS STUMPED!

Joe D -<br /><br />That's a 1970, right? Ok, it's a battery-driven CD ignition. It's totally powered by the battery, and the flywheel has nothing to do with it. All the flywheel and stator do is charge the battery. If the battery is fully charged, it'll run with the stator removed (until the battery drains down). <br /><br />It's also points-triggered. There is no timing sensor under the flywheel (other than the points). <br /><br />All this is based on it being a 1970-71 60hp. If it's 1972 or newer 65hp triple, it's a completely different system.<br /><br />My main suspect would be the points or the coil. If the starter's spinning fast at all, the battery's got plenty of kick in it for that ignition to work. You can check the ignition by finding the thin wire that leads from the powerpack under the flywheel to the points. Disconnect this lead. Also find the fat wire that leads from the coil, under the flywheel. Disconnect this (it's screwed into the connection under the flywheel, so you need to twist it, not just yank on it), and tape it somewhere so it's end is grounded. OK, turn the ignition ON, and momentarily ground the thin wire. Each time you ground it, you should get a good spark where the fat wire meets ground. That spark should jump a 7/16" air gap (hold the fat wire with a good insulator, or it's give you a healthy jolt). If it jumps 7/16", you're powerpack and coil are OK, and your suspects are points or distributor (under the flywheel). If not, coil or powerpack.
 

jjoediv

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Re: 1970 EVINRUDE 60ESL/ WEAK SPARK/ EVERYONE IS STUMPED!

THANKS TO LEDGEFINDER.HERE'S ANOTHER QUERY. I WAS TOLD THAT THE COIL WAS TESTED AND WAS GOOD ,ALSO THE POINTS ARE NEW AND HAVE BEEN CHECKED BY 2 DIFFERENT MECHANICS. IS IT POSSIBLE THAT COIL IS BORDERLINE AND HOW DO I CHECK IT'S CONDITION , ALSO DISTRIBUTOR WAS REPLACED AS THE OLD ONE HAD A SMALL CRACK BUT WHAT TYPE OF PROBLEM WITH THIS PART WOULD I BE LOOKING FOR ? AND WHAT WOULD I DO TO CORRECT IT. THANKS AGAIN
 

ledgefinder

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Re: 1970 EVINRUDE 60ESL/ WEAK SPARK/ EVERYONE IS STUMPED!

The test I described in last post examines the pack & coil together. If the motor fails that test, you'll need a peak-reading voltmeter to go further. When you touch the thin lead (the lead going from the powerpack, under the flywheel to the points) momentarily to ground, the blue wire from the powerpack to the coil should show 150 volts or higher. That's a momentary voltage, and you'll need a peak-reading voltmeter to measure it - a regular one won't work. If the pack is generating at least 150V, the problem is the coil. If the pack isn't generating 150, and the battery is charged, then the pack is bad. Another idea is to swap in a coil that is known to be good. <br /><br />Did you verify that this is a 1970? If you have three coils, it's got the (completely different) later model ignition. If it has just one, then we're OK.<br /><br />So what are the symptoms? Are you getting uniformly-weak spark on all three, or is it just one cylinder that's weak?
 

ddaigle

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Re: 1970 EVINRUDE 60ESL/ WEAK SPARK/ EVERYONE IS STUMPED!

Hey guys, this may be totally off the wall, but I have this same motor and the starter solenoid works differently than a car one. Car solenoids are triggered by positive volts and my solenoid is triggered by negative voltage. Maybe you have some wiring issues.
 

jjoediv

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Re: 1970 EVINRUDE 60ESL/ WEAK SPARK/ EVERYONE IS STUMPED!

Originally posted by ledgefinder:<br />The test I described in last post examines the pack & coil together. If the motor fails that test, you'll need a peak-reading voltmeter to go further. When you touch the thin lead (the lead going from the powerpack, under the flywheel to the points) momentarily to ground, the blue wire from the powerpack to the coil should show 150 volts or higher. That's a momentary voltage, and you'll need a peak-reading voltmeter to measure it - a regular one won't work. If the pack is generating at least 150V, the problem is the coil. If the pack isn't generating 150, and the battery is charged, then the pack is bad. Another idea is to swap in a coil that is known to be good. <br /><br />Did you verify that this is a 1970? If you have three coils, it's got the (completely different) later model ignition. If it has just one, then we're OK.<br /><br />So what are the symptoms? Are you getting uniformly-weak spark on all three, or is it just one cylinder that's weak?
 

jjoediv

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Re: 1970 EVINRUDE 60ESL/ WEAK SPARK/ EVERYONE IS STUMPED!

HEY LEDGE,<br /> DID YOU READ THE REPLY ABOUT THE STARTOR RELAY! I USED A CAR ONE!! ALSO I WANT TO GO THROUGH THE IGNITION FROM BATTERY TO PLUGS, I THOUGHT THAT MAYBE A RUSTED CONTACT OR A BAD RED OR BLACK BATTERY LEAD MAY INHIBIT THE FLOW TO THE IGNITION SYSTEM. GONNA DO A BEFORE AND AFTER TEST AS SOON AS WEATHER BREAKS
 

jjoediv

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Re: 1970 EVINRUDE 60ESL/ WEAK SPARK/ EVERYONE IS STUMPED!

Originally posted by ddaigle:<br />Hey guys, this may be totally off the wall, but I have this same motor and the starter solenoid works differently than a car one. Car solenoids are triggered by positive volts and my solenoid is triggered by negative voltage. Maybe you have some wiring issues.
 

jjoediv

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Re: 1970 EVINRUDE 60ESL/ WEAK SPARK/ EVERYONE IS STUMPED!

THIS COULD BE THE QUIRK I'M LOOKING FOR. I WONDER IF THAST COULD HAVE CAUSED AMPLIFIER TO WORK HARDER AND THEREFOR CAUSING IT TO FAIL!OR EVEN WEAKENED MY COIL.WHAT DO YOU THINK? HAVE YOU RUN INTO THIS TYPE OF PROBLEM WITH YOURS AQND WHERE DID YOU FIND OUT THAT THE RELAYS WERE DIFFERENT. THIS SURE SOUNDS LIKE ONE CURRENT FIGHTING ANOTHER!!
 

ddaigle

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Re: 1970 EVINRUDE 60ESL/ WEAK SPARK/ EVERYONE IS STUMPED!

I was tracing wiring and checking voltage and found out that the trigger to the solenoid from the ignition switch is a negative. You may be pulling too much voltage from the ignition with the car solenoid. Just a guess, like I said Im no expert at this.
 

ddaigle

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Re: 1970 EVINRUDE 60ESL/ WEAK SPARK/ EVERYONE IS STUMPED!

Also, this system is totally battery dependant as ledge stated. If you have poor connections, weak battery, or bad wiring anywhere you will have problems. I also found a good bit of my wiring to be scrap. Insulation coming off, wires falling apart on the inside etc.
 

ddaigle

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Re: 1970 EVINRUDE 60ESL/ WEAK SPARK/ EVERYONE IS STUMPED!

Joe , do you have a manual? There is a good troubleshooting process in the seloc manual I have. One of the first steps is checking voltage while cranking the motor. The amplifier needs at least 9.5 volts while the starter is cranking or it will not function right. I replaced my amp and coil due to scrap wiring, but I rewired the amp and it worked on my motor.Just didn't want to run it permanently like that. You are welcome to try them. The coil is good just old. Im still leaning toward the auto solenoid or bad wiring-connections though.
 

jjoediv

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Re: 1970 EVINRUDE 60ESL/ WEAK SPARK/ EVERYONE IS STUMPED!

TODAY I BOUGHT THE PROPER STARTER SELONOID AND INSTALLED IT. THE MOTOR WOULD NOT CRANK. I READ THE MANUAL AND LOOKED AT THE WIRING DIAGRAM TO FIND THAT THE SAFETY SWITCH WAS NOT CONNECTED,THAT IS WHY I HAD TO GROUND THE AUTOMOTIVE SOLENOID TO MAKE IT WORK! IN ANY EVENT I ALSO READ THE MANUAL AND IT STATED "DO NOT USE AUTOMOTIVE SOLENOID" WELL I HAVE TO SOLDER THE SAFETY SWITCH AS THE TAB ON TOP IS NOT STAYING , THERE IS A SMALL PIN THAT IT LOCATES ON. I GOT THE MOTOR TO RUN ALTHOUGH IT WAS VERY FAST AND QUIT AT LOWER RPMS. I'M NOT SURE IF THE SWITCH CAUSED THAT. I HOPE SOLDERING WILL WORK. I THINK I'M MAKING PROGRESS BUT WONDER IF THE CARBS ARE ALL MISADJUSTED DUE TO THE AUTO PART . HAVE YOU ANY COMMENTS FOR ME. I'M HOPING YOU DO CAUSE IF I CAN GET THIS MOTOR RUNNIG I WILL BE IN HEAVEN AND YOU WOULD BE MY OUTBOARD GUARDIAN ANGEL.
 

Solittle

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Re: 1970 EVINRUDE 60ESL/ WEAK SPARK/ EVERYONE IS STUMPED!

joe - For Gods sake please turn the Caps Lock off. It is called SHOUTING and is hard on us poor folk what wear trifocals & don't see to gud anymore.
 

jjoediv

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Re: 1970 EVINRUDE 60ESL/ WEAK SPARK/ EVERYONE IS STUMPED!

oops sorry. didn't remember that but will in the future
 

ledgefinder

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Re: 1970 EVINRUDE 60ESL/ WEAK SPARK/ EVERYONE IS STUMPED!

Do you mean it wouldn't run at low rpms (that is, wouldn't idle)? The carbs may be gummed up with old gas.
 

jjoediv

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Re: 1970 EVINRUDE 60ESL/ WEAK SPARK/ EVERYONE IS STUMPED!

i treated gas with stabil before storing. gonna sodder safety switch today and try again. i will post results.
 

ledgefinder

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Re: 1970 EVINRUDE 60ESL/ WEAK SPARK/ EVERYONE IS STUMPED!

Couple warnings now that you've got it running.<br /><br />1) Do not hook the battery up backwards. You will blow that expensive amplifier immediately. <br /><br />2) Multicarb 2strokes can overheat a cylinder (toast a piston) if one of the carbs runs lean. Make sure the carbs are clean, and run fresh gas in a clean tank. Cleaning the carbs on that motor isn't too bad of a job - the carbs come off pretty easily. <br /><br />What you want to do is make sure the jets (3 per carb I think) and internal passageways are clean. A spray can of carb cleaner works great for this. Stick the little plastic hose in the various holes and spray, making sure you see a good flow coming out the other end. <br /><br />Try not to mess with any of the linkage settings when you take them apart, then you can just bolt the things back together. <br /><br />I put a normal $2 automotive fuel filter in the gas line, before the fuel pump. This gives me some more security against crud in the gas.<br /><br />At the end of the season, drain the carbs (real easy to do on that motor, just pull those plugs over the main jet holes). Then the carbs will never gum up,no matter how long it sits.
 

ledgefinder

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Re: 1970 EVINRUDE 60ESL/ WEAK SPARK/ EVERYONE IS STUMPED!

Those safety switches are a headache - they fail a lot. I don't want to give you unsafe advice, but for testing purposes it's probably OK to just ground the wire leading to the safety switch. Just remember it's then possible for it to start at high throttle, in gear - could cause death or serious injury.
 

ddaigle

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Re: 1970 EVINRUDE 60ESL/ WEAK SPARK/ EVERYONE IS STUMPED!

Ledge is right about the safety switch, I had to disconnect mine, just be careful. The switch only affects the starter motor not the ignition or how the motor runs.Just follow the above good advice and you should be fine. Its great when they finally run isnt it? :) :)
 
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