1970 115hp Viability Testing

[bigpoppakdog]

Re: 1970 115hp Viability Testing

Answer a couple questions(maybe you have, but I'm short on time and too lazy to read back over your past posts).

1. Is the wiring correct?
2. Is there a jumper wire used to bypass the clipper switch? If so, remove the clipper switch and move the wires over to the correct terminal so there is power going to the pack.
3. Do you volts back at the terminals when you turn the ignition switch to the on position? If not, then you know there is a problem in the switch. If yes, then move on to correct wiring to the pack.**you should do this after checking to see if wiring is correct***
4. Did you do an ohms test on the ignition coil?
5. Did you remove flywheel and inspect under there? Spark plug wires bad? Sensor bad?
6. Do you have a new pulse pack?

I can tell you when I first got my motor, I got intermittent spark. It ended up being that stupid clipper switch was bypassed with a 2 inch wire that would short out. Removed that wire, then failed to move the power wire at the terminal, so I still didn't have spark. Then remembered my error, moved a wire over and that was it. Off and running.
Could you take a clear photo of the back of your terminals so a guy can check out the wiring?

 

[TruckDrivingFool]

Re: 1970 115hp Viability Testing

The picture referred to below are the exploded parts pictures from the parts catalog on Johnson.com

The wiring doesn't match the diagram in my 70' manual and I can't make it match because of what I think is a 72 pack. The pack doesn't match the picture for a 70' pack. It does match the picture of a 72' pack that has more/different wires, thats why I ordered the 72' manual. Hopefully once it arrives the wiring will make more sense since there are other discrepancies besides the pack and switch.

The safety switch/clipper matches neither 70' or 72' picture. It only has three wires vs. four shown in the picture.

There isn't a jumper.

I do have 12v at the purple wire on terminal strip w/ the key on. Which is the only place I got to in the manual's checklist before I started having troubles following it due to the wiring differences.

I haven't done any tests on the coil or removed the flywheel to inspect under there.

The sensor I haven't done any tests on either due more wiring discrepancies.

The PO said she had the wires replaced and they do look new.

No I don't have a new pulse pack the one on the motor now looks to be a junk yard one (has good written on it in paint pen) and I found a second one laying under the splash tray. Both packs are the same.

I'll get a picture and hopefully have the 72' manual by the time I get home Friday night.

 

[bigpoppakdog]

Re: 1970 115hp Viability Testing

The picture referred to below are the exploded parts pictures from the parts catalog on Johnson.com

The wiring doesn't match the diagram in my 70' manual and I can't make it match because of what I think is a 72 pack. The pack doesn't match the picture for a 70' pack. It does match the picture of a 72' pack that has more/different wires, thats why I ordered the 72' manual. Hopefully once it arrives the wiring will make more sense since there are other discrepancies besides the pack and switch.

The safety switch/clipper matches neither 70' or 72' picture. It only has three wires vs. four shown in the picture.

There isn't a jumper.

I do have 12v at the purple wire on terminal strip w/ the key on. Which is the only place I got to in the manual's checklist before I started having troubles following it due to the wiring differences.

I haven't done any tests on the coil or removed the flywheel to inspect under there.

The sensor I haven't done any tests on either due more wiring discrepancies.

The PO said she had the wires replaced and they do look new.

No I don't have a new pulse pack the one on the motor now looks to be a junk yard one (has good written on it in paint pen) and I found a second one laying under the splash tray. Both packs are the same.

I'll get a picture and hopefully have the 72' manual by the time I get home Friday night.

If you could take some photos I(or others) can compare with the correct manual while you are waiting for your manual.

 

[TruckDrivingFool]

Re: 1970 115hp Viability Testing

Still no 72' manual but heres a pic and a crude diagram of whats there now. Hopefully between the text and diagram its clear what I'm working with.

Terminal #

1. Ylw to Stator and Ylw to Rectifier
2. Ylw to Diode and Ylw to Safety Switch
3. Ylw/Gry-st to Stator and Wht to Starter Solenoid
4. Ylw/Gry-st to Diode and Ylw/Gry-st to Safety Switch
5. Blue to Pack and Blue to Coil
6. Red/Ylw-st to Rectifier
7. None
8. Purple to Pack and Purple to Safety Switch
9. Purple to Engine Block Sensor and White? to Harness
10. Gry/Grn-st to Harness and Gry/Grn-st to Rectifier
11. Purple/Ylw-st to Choke and Purple/Ylw to Engine Block Sensor
12. Purple/Wht-st to Choke and Gry/Wht-st to Harness

There is also a bundle thats is 2 Blk/Wht-st and a Grn/Wht-st From the pack to the Flywheel Sensor.

2 Blk Pack to Engine Ground
1 Blk Safety Switch to Engine Ground

1 Red from the Starter Solenoid to Nothing but looks like at one time it went to Terminal# 6.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: 1970 115hp Viability Testing

NO, NO, NO! Stator has nothing to do with starting this motor. The stator is responsible for charging the battery, but nothing to do with ignition. Stators do not go bad a lot, but the pulse packs on these do.

Yup. OMC stators also don't produce 12VDC. Most likely, the one on his motor produces 300VAC.

I also agree that stators do not go bad often - the one on my 1972 J65 is original. I have been swearing that I'll replace it for several years, but it just keeps getting the job done. Conversely, my timer base, powerpack and ignition coils are all replacements.



???

 

[TruckDrivingFool]

Re: 1970 115hp Viability Testing

72' manual showed up today, And the wiring and componants match a 72' 100/125hp.

All wires are right plus I went through and cleaned all connections up w/ some emery cloth just to be sure.

12v to the terminal strip pack connection. The manual says to test for amps drawn by the pack. My manual says test for minimal amperage inline to the pack. Meter showed .015. Manual just lists a maximum of 7. Tried the jump/strike sensor wires to get spark out of the coil listed in CDI's trouble shooting guide, still nothing.

I wasn't sure of which set of diodes they where talking about to run the test on the clipper so I haven't done that yet. Is it the diode set in the charging system or the shifting system? Any clarification on this would be great.

Question I have now is, the manual gives values for checking the coil on an ignition tester, that I don't have. Is there a way to test a coil w/ a multimeter?

Am I just as well off to throw a coil at it before I throw a pack at it? I'm thinking that if the expensive clipper (yes its a clipper in this setup according to the manual) can be eliminated

FWIW the coil looks to be an OEM coil and the plastic case is cracked, I remember reading of different coils that many posters said look at the cracks thats junk.

 

[boobie]

Re: 1970 115hp Viability Testing

Putting a jumper wire between terminals 7 & 9 elimates your alternator, rectifer and "safety switch". All your dealing with then is the ignition system itself, meaning incoming voltage to pack, coil, dist cap, rotor and plug wires. This is not a "Clipper" on this mtr. Clippers were used on 3 cly mtrs to keep high voltage out of the system. Safety switches were used to keep the mtr from starting if you just turned the ign switch on only. The "safety switch" would not feed power to the pack unless the mtr was turning over and the switch was powered by the charging system from flywheel rotation. Clippers and safety switches both looked the same but one had one more wire than the other. When I said terminals 7 & 9 I meant on the terminal block on the back of the mtr. To properly check a coil you have to have an ignition tester which puts it under load. You may want to see if any BRP dealer in you area has one and have him check it before spending the money on a new one.

 

[bigpoppakdog]

Re: 1970 115hp Viability Testing

The safety switch on this motor is the clipper switch. This was to prevent the motor from actually starting when the key is off. I took mine off and knock on wood, haven't had this start up suddenly on its own.

Yes you can check the coil with a regular multi meter using the ohms setting to see if you have continuity all the way through.

 

[TruckDrivingFool]

Re: 1970 115hp Viability Testing

The 70 manual mentions the jumper from 7 to 9 to eliminate the pack and coil from your trouble shooting process but this won't work on this since its wired like a 72 100/125 and there is no wiring on the 7 term.

Anybody know if there is a way to jumper the 72' wire to have the same outcome? The 72 manual doesn't give the same kind of jumper technique.

Bigpop is/was yours a 4 wire safety switch or the 3 wire clipper? Mine has the 3 wire. I ask as I wondered about bypassing it or removing it all together as I've read many posts saying that some manufactures require that for the warranty on new packs. Not to mention it could eliminate it from the trouble shooting process.

 

[boobie]

Re: 1970 115hp Viability Testing

Now that we know you have a '72 that had a clipper on it but as orginally posted it was a '70 which had a saftey circuit on it. The clipper was designed to take high voltage spikes out of the system. Rapair or now CDI years ago recommended taking off the clipper. The clipper is not a safety sw. The packs in '72 were so designed so the mtr would not start if you just turned the key on with out turning the mtr over. No saftety switch needed. I'd say take the clipper off, make sure all your bat connections are good, clean and tight and go from there. And no, you can't check a coil with just an ohm meter. To do it properly you have to have a load tester or if any question about it just replace the coil. After all these years who knows what was swapped so the model # doesn't jib with the p/h that you have. Follow your '72 manual for trouble shooting procedures.

 

[bigpoppakdog]

Re: 1970 115hp Viability Testing

Must have missed that. I still thought it was a 1970.

 

[TruckDrivingFool]

Re: 1970 115hp Viability Testing

The serial# on the welch plug in the PH matches the # on the transom bracket, and I had to the larger 70 bendix on the starter. For some reason it has 72 electronics on it.

Unless there is something extra I have to do wiring wise other than just remove the clipper, that made no difference, still no spark.

I'll throw a coil at it when I get paid again and start saving for a pack.

Thanks for all the help guys.