1969 Mariner V bow removal question...

[kcatto]

I have this 1969 16' Mariner-V that I want to restore and I was looking at it today and wondering about removing the wide gunwales and bow or maybe just trim them down a lot, Seems like I saw someone do this to a jupiter many years back and they were able to open it up for more room, for the life of me I cannot find that thread anywhere, they turned it into a tiller steer.... I want to keep my side console since the previous owner all ready had the teleflex steering installed. besides tillers really stink...

just trying to get a game plan for this thing over the winter....

Thank you guys so much,
keven

 

[barato2]

Re: 1969 Mariner V bow removal question...

wow! glad to see you making progress, boatwise and otherwise, after all that.

the more serious note
i like your approach..........

i HATE "tiller shoulder"; good plan on keeping the steering. it sounds like trying to narrow the gunwales would not only be a LOT of work, it would also get in the way of your console? also, the gunwale forms a U-channel with the hull side and i suspect they are somewhat structural in terms of longitudinal stiffening.

 

[kcatto]

Re: 1969 Mariner V bow removal question...

ok, thank you... I was thinking about removing the bow cover and replacing it with a smaller plate... Might just build a long rod locker in the passenger side.... this is kinda fun I have built so many planes from the blueprints to flight level, and restored several cars and numerous motorcycles, even a few campers.... but or some reason never a boat till now.... so I have lots to learn.... thank you for your advise...

 

[barato2]

Re: 1969 Mariner V bow removal question...

if you mean real, full-scale, EAA type airplanes, this will be cake for you. the main issues you haven't run into before will have to do with "marine" issues (usually corrosion and how to avoid blowing yourself up with gas fumes).

oh, and welcome to the madhouse.

 

[kcatto]

Re: 1969 Mariner V bow removal question...

If you meant FAA airplanes then yes... I am A&P, Boeing & Cessna certified inspector.. everything from the Boeing 707 to the 787 my specialty was 737 and MD80's, I have worked on and flight certified several of the confederate WWII aircraft in my years (nothing like bucking rivets on a B-17 or on miss America p-51 mustang that is a racer). I had the honor to work on Charles Lindbergh bi-plane linen and dope.... Corrosion is a constant issue in aircraft... but for all of my experience and knowledge I still like to talk to and get advice from guys who have been there and done that.... there is no degree, education or substitute for experience.... and my grandfather used to tell me my whole life "never quit learning cause you don't know everything, and when you think you do you will just set yourself up to fail everyone has something to teach and learn".... I lost a lot of my mad skills with my injury but trying to get them back... my spinal cord injury affected my memory as well I find I have to look up just about everything now... some of the side effect of the medicine I was given for my stem cell therapy... so now i feel like a guy with lots of experience and credentials but sometimes i feel like an idiot... hahaha

 

[yooperangler]

Re: 1969 Mariner V bow removal question...

On my mariner it seems the gunwales do provide a great deal of stiffening for the sides of the hull but at the bow there was a raised plywood deck below that top skin over the bow which seemed to provide more of the support there at least closer to the waterline. Mine is newer and a center console but it still seems that regardless of the layout you wouldnt want to remove the gunwales entirely but perhaps u can downsize the width a bit and extend them to meet the smaller bow cap? As barato said the wide gunwales are integral to attaching the side console so that would need to be redesigned or put in a c.c. ? Best of luck sounds like it will be an interesting project.

 

[barato2]

Re: 1969 Mariner V bow removal question...

not sure i'd go the center console route if you like the side consoles. CCs are a PITA to plumb and wire.

K, sort of. i thought when you said you'd built planes from blueprints up that you meant Experimental Aircraft Assn....the Oshkosh crowd. but working on the Spirit of St L? wow.............kind of makes building a Kitfox pale by comparison.

 

[kcatto]

Re: 1969 Mariner V bow removal question...

no never done any experimental aircraft just built and inspected several Boeing aircraft, 737 mainly all commercial aircraft and military aircraft... I did rebuild a Mooney, and a STOL aircraft it was a buddies kit plane he bought to build and he could not get past the monocoque fuselage, so I finished it for him... he did about 5% of the build and got lost... he is a good pilot terrible mechanic...

Oh and I never worked on the "Spirit of St Louis".... I had the honor to re-fabric and dope one of his earlier bi-planes, when he used to deliver the US mail for the Civil Air Mail or CAM... it is called the American eagle it was a 1918 de Havilland DH-4, what was really cool is when we opened the original fabric fuselage the original builders and mechanics had signed it as well as Lindbergh himself... so when we re-did it we saved that piece of the original Irish linen for the museum and we were asked to re-sign our names in the fuselage in the same spot as the original signatures... It was amazing after we got her finished and re-certified by the FAA one of my buddies got to take her for the FAA mandated test flight to certify her as airworthy... kind of awesome watching that old bird fly away even if it was just around the airfield...


NOW back to boat business: lol

I am really happy with the side console, just was trying to get a little bit more room up front and side to side.... open it up a bit....
I did see a guy that bought a jupiter with the front bow cover all ready removed, he just removed the gunnels and built it up the sides a little bit but he went with a tiller steer which is crazy, but since his boat had no console in it at all he thought it was the easiest way to get him on the water... shame I do not know how to get a hold of him... he posted his build on share-a-project in 2006-2007 and I bought my boat in first weekend of august 2008... broke my neck august 29th.... so I have a slow project going.... lol

My boat came with two wooden benches across the front and the back but they are long gone and it had a small half bench for the console seat.... Never had a splash well in it either... and has a 27" or 29" transom for a long shaft if i remember right.... so it is open and roomy but feels a little narrow with the wide gunnels...... It was a gulf boat originally out of galvaston in 1968.... the guy I bought it from took it to lake texoma, ok in 1972... and used it for striper fishing its whole life, until I bought it in 2008...

 

[64osby]

Re: 1969 Mariner V bow removal question...

Haven't seen a pics, they are required here.:watermelon: Otherwise it never happened or you don't own the tin.

If the 16 is what you're dealing with, it came with a side console and the front and rear seats would help with hull structure.

I would not mess with the gunwalls, changing the center bench might allow more walk around room. Pedestal or shorter bench. The beam is 65", it is what it is.

An 18' might fit your needs a little better, or a 21' is absolutely fantastic.

 

[kcatto]

Re: 1969 Mariner V bow removal question...

I am sorry I forgot about the picture rule...lol... A 16' is perfect for my waters here in oklahoma...

here are a few pictures....

front picture


transom forward


side view


these are all the pictures I have on my computer now... I cannot wait to tear it down and build it back up....

 

[kcatto]

Re: 1969 Mariner V bow removal question...

I do not know who owns this boat (I saved the picture years ago) or even which starcraft model it is, but I am in love with it and it is a lot of my inspiration on this project... I only wish I had half a dozen more pictures of it... I will also post up a couple of picture of that guys jupiter I saved from several years ago..

 

[kcatto]

Re: 1969 Mariner V bow removal question...

here is the guys jupiter I saved in 2006-2007 just to give you guys an idea of what I am talking about

how he bought it


gunnels removed


finished interior


just some of the best ideas i have seen in the last 6 or 7 years...

 

[kcatto]

Re: 1969 Mariner V bow removal question...

:facepalm:... duplicate post

 

[barato2]

Re: 1969 Mariner V bow removal question...

on that Jup, it looks like he built in enough structure that if it's at least 1/2" ply and all tied together with the floors, it would adequately replace the stiffness of gunwales, at least for non-big-water use. you could do the same with yours, no problem, but it would be a lot more work than Osby's suggestion and a simple restore, and you were noting that you don't work as fast as you would like. just a thought. if i'd restored my Holiday stock instead of having to engineer a center console conversion, it might already be done.....:facepalm:

but with your experience, whatever you might want to do on these things will be cake. nice thing about one of these is that it's a tabla rasa to build whAT YOU oops want

A 16' is perfect for my waters here Guys, how many times have we heard something like that before? K, MBS is virulent and insidious, and has claimed many here.....who, like vampires or zombies, then infect others

don't recall what you said about your transom but i trust you know that diamond plate is a likely sign that the wood is toast? people do these kinds of eexternal "reinforcemnt" when things start to bow.

 

[kcatto]

Re: 1969 Mariner V bow removal question...

Yeah, After reading WAY to many hours on builds here, I am all ready thinking about a bigger boat after this one.... That Jupiter was from somewhere up Washington, pacific north west, He posted about his first few times out it was running it in Peugeot sound, I have never been to Washington state but I think the sound is pretty big??? My boat will never see water much bigger than a big lake, but mainly lake Eufaula in Oklahoma second biggest lake in our state, but it is still small enough to fish rivers, and bigger ponds..... besides it is a cool old boat, and tags are $11.00 for three years in Oklahoma because of it's age.... my wave runner is a 2006 and it cost $110 for a year tag here, big difference in price for a lot more fishing room.... i'm selling waverunner maybe to help fund the boat build...

That jupiter was built with 3/8th cedar plank flooring, he said cedar floats, resist rot, lighter and cheaper at the time than plywood.... different but I guess it worked.... amazing what I remember from his restoration build back in 06-07, I just wish he had left the page up somewhere..... my long term memory is good things come and go but short term memory is where I took my beating. My memory is getting better now that I am off the meds, but I just don't trust it fully yet, hence I feel the need to clarify or look every thing up.....

Yes my transom is trash after you posted I checked and it is soft, it is dry but my thumbnail goes in real easy.... I like the diamond plate you think I can re-use it when I replace the transom??

 

[jasoutside]

Re: 1969 Mariner V bow removal question...

Hey kcatto!

That's a cool rig you have there. I'd leave it be! What you are suggesting would be a ton of work (to do it right) for very little gain I think.

Cheers!

 

[barato2]

Re: 1969 Mariner V bow removal question...

K, that last input is coming from a man who Knows about how boat projects can expand into years if one is not careful

cedar is lighter than plywood, and it does float. and it smells good and will keep moths from eating your waders. that's about all the good i can say about using 3/8" cedar for structural stuff on a boat. especially where he;'s using it in lieu of the stiffening of the gunwales. if you do similar, use at least 1/2' exterior, or (if you can afford it) marine, plywood. or aluminum, since you obviously have LOTS of experience working with that.

yes, i not only see no reason why you couldn't keep the DP, i think you'd be silly to toss it. it;'s just a major expansion of what the factory did for a transom cap. nice way to "top off" the new tranny.

 

[64osby]

Re: 1969 Mariner V bow removal question...

My .02 - use the front seat supports and make a front casting deck, add more side supports and running supported ply under the bow. Add a few compartments and a pedestal chair. You could do the same in the stern, maybe with a post receiver and flip the pedestal chair between the helm and the rear deck. Add more storage as needed. If you want / need a better looking console build or buy.

Add storage between the console and the front deck. Add storage / live well opposite the console, keep it narrow and long.

This would give the look and feel of

without reinventing the wheel.

 

[kcatto]

Re: 1969 Mariner V bow removal question...

OK! thank you all for the input.... this is what i was wanting to bounce ideas off of experienced guys....

As far as exterior treated plywood? is it not pressure treated with sodium (salt) to make it exterior grade? Sodium and aluminum do not play well together, I would hate to make my aluminum hull the sacrificial anode??? Would it not be better to use epoxied regular plywood???

about the white starcraft I pictured above i think that was someones boat here on this board somewhere...

I have to replace the floor anyway, so out comes the original floor and foam and new foam and floor.... I am planning to make some casting decks both front and rear, rebuilding the console anyway, I am planning a live well made out of a big igloo cooler placed right in front of the console flush with the front deck. I have all ready bought new seats, and most of the bigger ticket items as they have gone on sale over the last 4 or 5 years while I was healing... what about gluv-it? good or bad? I would like to seal the inside with something... Even if it does not leak redundancy or better safe than sorry is a good thing....

I am trying to get this thing ready to work on it over the winter in the garage, i just finished the interior and finished building the wiring harness for my 1977 dodge ramcharger, so it is up and running so it is out of the garage now..... As far as time I have plenty of that...
I have to finish up a few more loose ends and then I will start a re-build thread looks like fun I have never documented a re-build with pictures and all...

Since I have never owned a boat outside of a waverunner and a Gheenoe this is looking to be quite the adventure.... The outboard I bought is a 1982 mercury 45hp quicksilver, It runs good.... but has been sitting winterized in my garage for a few years so I expect a partial tear down and re-build on it that is easy enough....

I want everyone to know how much I appreciate any and all feedback, you all are great....

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1969 Mariner V bow removal question...

You have pressure treated, rated for ground contact plywood confused w/ exterior grade plywood. PT ply has the nasty chemicals you are concerned about attacking the aluminum hull. You are correct NOT for use in an aluminum boat.

You want to use exterior rated plywood (it's about the glue & the types/quality of lumber used to make the ply). Commonly used plys, by cost (to me here in WV):
Marine
MDO (medium density overlay, NOT MDF, & looks like it's face is covered w/ a brown grocery paper bag)
Exterior Fir
Aurauco (sp?)
ACX
BCX

Marine would be best but is also most expensive, and few here use it. It can be tough to find, particularly in any thickness other then 3/4". Here a 3/4" 4X8 Marine sheet is $75+/- & I have to drive 95mi each way to get it. I can order 1/2" or 5/8" 4X8 MDO @ either side of $60. Many use & really like working w/ the Auruco, but it can also be hard to find. In 1 HomeDepot 3.5hrs away, I found it once, for @$50 for 3/4" 4X8. The next time I was over that way & stopped at the HD, they didn't have it in stock & had no idea if or when they'd get more.

Gluvit or Coat-it on the interior rivets & seams is a great idea, do 1 or the other

That Quicksilver motor may surprise you w/ how little is required for it to be a turn key motor. 2cyl OB's survive neglect very well when they were prepped for a long hibernation. For sure order a replacement impeller, pull & check the plugs, give it a shot of SeaFoam in each cylinder, replace the lower unit gear lube, make sure varmints haven't been feasting on the wiring &/or it's insulation, check the throttle & ignition cables, charge the battery & see if it'll crank...

SeaFoam can be used in the gas too. Some use it just during de-winterizing, others add it to every tank of gas..