1963 Mercury 650 restoration

[racerone]

I do not believe that a bump can shift these units from FORWARD to NUETRAL.---------The spring on the clutch dog holds it in forward forever !!!!

 

[GA_Boater]

Not been my experience. Spring holding it or not, neutral worked better for me.

Yes, I've done it a few times.

 

[MPrimeaux]

Well, either way I got it finally. The trouble I was having was getting the water tube stabbed. Hopefully, it will be many years before I have to pull that dang thing off again! Made a little progress today I guess. Finished up rebuilding carbs and replacing the water pump. One thing that I did notice that I was hoping to get some input on... The manual shows a different type of thrust washer for the prop. The prop ends up being REALLY close to the LU hub?? Gear box?? Not sure what you want to call it. Almost like it could use another spacer or washer or something. Would any of you mind taking a look at the pics and letting me know if it's legit or not. Thanks again for all of the help everyone.

 

[MPrimeaux]

Here are a couple with the prop installed. I should add, the prop nut seems to bottom out and the prop has just a TINY bit of fwd/back play. Like... 1/16" or maybe a little less, either way, I can definitely see it move a smidge and I felt the nut bottom out

 

[MPrimeaux]

Hey guys, been away for a while. Life's been moving fast. Oldest moved out and got a place of his own, moved youngest into the dorm at ULM. I head home in a few day and plan on working on this Merc some. I have some questions on the fuel lines. Is it not possible to just cut the fittings out of the fuel lines and use worm gear clamps and some new fuel line? Everywhere I look, I keep seeing the fuel lines sold complete with fittings and all say something about "adapter". Am I going to have to purchase $100 worth of fuel lines?

 

[GA_Boater]

Just what I did. I thought the price was a little high, almost as much as a used rotor and just as old. Even NOS parts are ancient, so new hose is better.

I cut the crimp off, leaving the threaded tube to clamp the new hose onto.

 

[MPrimeaux]

Just what I did. I thought the price was a little high, almost as much as a used rotor and just as old. Even NOS parts are ancient, so new hose is better.

I cut the crimp off, leaving the threaded tube to clamp the new hose onto.

Roger that. That's what I needed to know brother. Thanks for the quick response. Keep you posted.

 

[MPrimeaux]

Hello all. So I've got my fuel lines replaced and I'm starting to go back together with everything. Pulled the flywheel to change the timing belt.... side note: is there no way to remove the flywheel without cutting the timing belt? I don't see how to get the timing gear off of the flywheel????..... Anyways, I noticed that the stator/alternator looked pretty rough when I was removing it to install new belt. I rang it out and I'm getting close to 0 ohms... to me that seems shorted, but I don't really know what it's supposed to read. I THINK I'm reading in the manual that I should be getting a reading of .35 - .45 on the Mercotronic thing-a-ma-bobber with it set on...blah, blah..... Does anyone know what the resistance reading should be on the stator/alternator?? Thanks.

P.S. - guess I should include some info. 1963 Merc 650, alternator is part # 398-2171

 

[racerone]

There is no need to cut the timing bely to get the flywheel off !!

 

[jimmbo]

Deleted

 

[MPrimeaux]

There is no need to cut the timing bely to get the flywheel off !!

What did I do wrong racer?? When I tried to pull the flywheel, I couldn't pull it off. I couldn't get the drive pulley AND the belt to slip through the inside of the stator. Once I cut the belt and pulled it out by turning the flywheel, I was able to just lift the flywheel off. It appeared that there wasn't enough clearance on the I.D. of the stator. I was afraid I would break something if I just kept pulling. Is that not the case?

 

[MPrimeaux]

At any rate, I was able to finally get the flywheel off and change the timing belt. After looking in the manual a little closer, I see that the chart that I posted a picture of DOES say .35 - .45 Ohoms.... I missed that the first time. I thought it was giving me a range off of the merc-o-tronic tester. I also go the magneto back on complete with new bearings, points, condenser, and plug wires. Going to work on installing carbs and fuel pumps today. I've been trying to repair the internal wiring harness by soldering some new wire to the old. It's not going really well.... I didn't find any decent wire until I cut open the molded plug and even inside there it was corroded pretty bad. Anyone have any clever ideas for a wiring harness? At this point, I think my choices are: 1. biting the bullet and spending close to $400 for new after market control harnesses. 2. Using some sort of big wiring loom and wiring it directly from controls to engine without a plug.... Something similar to what new, larger outboards use now. Any opinions/advice?

 

[GA_Boater]

EDIT - I was writing this as you replied above. But I wrote too much to just delete it.

If you take the flange off the timing pulley on the magneto drive, the belt lifts off. Then you have all the slack needed to remove the flywheel. You were replacing the belt, so no harm. But for future reference, no need to cut the belt.

While the belt is off, check the magneto bearings by spinning the pulley. You will feel the magnetic flux as a rotor lobe passes the magnet, but you can also feel bearing notchiness. I had a belt break from bad bearings.

On the stator OHMs reading - OHMS is OHMs. The Mercotronic thing-a-ma-bobber setting to the left of the chart describes zeroing the meter on Scale No. 2 by shorting the leads and adjusting the needle to zero. This is a required practice when using an analog meter. A Merc-O-Tronic Magneto Analyzer was just a fancy tool for mechanics to use with a minimum of electronic training - An electronic go - no go tester.


.35 - .45 OHMS is almost a short. Use the lowest resistance scale on the meter. Try another meter unless you have a Merc-O-Tronic Magneto Analyzer sitting on the shelf.

What you're measuring is the resistance of a 50 or 60 foot length of wire. It isn't much. If it isn't showing an open, the wire is good. One more thing to check is that the wire isn't shorted to the stator frame. Check the resistance between either lead and a bare spot on the frame for an open.

The last thing that could be bad with the stator is wire coils can be shorted in the wire wraps. Unless you have a Merc-O-Tronic Magneto Analyzer sitting on the shelf, about the only way to check that is with a running motor and measure the stator output AC voltage and rectifier output DC voltage. I'm not sure what the AC voltage should be, 30 - 40 VAC and increases as the RPM are raised, I think. The rectifier should be about 13 VDC above idle and increasing as the motor is revved to about 15 or 16 VDC. Your manual should have another chart with the correct voltages using a Merc-O-Tronic Magneto Analyzer.

 

[MPrimeaux]

EDIT - I was writing this as you replied above. But I wrote too much to just delete it.

If you take the flange off the timing pulley on the magneto drive, the belt lifts off. Then you have all the slack needed to remove the flywheel. You were replacing the belt, so no harm. But for future reference, no need to cut the belt.

While the belt is off, check the magneto bearings by spinning the pulley. You will feel the magnetic flux as a rotor lobe passes the magnet, but you can also feel bearing notchiness. I had a belt break from bad bearings.

On the stator OHMs reading - OHMS is OHMs. The Mercotronic thing-a-ma-bobber setting to the left of the chart describes zeroing the meter on Scale No. 2 by shorting the leads and adjusting the needle to zero. This is a required practice when using an analog meter. A Merc-O-Tronic Magneto Analyzer was just a fancy tool for mechanics to use with a minimum of electronic training - An electronic go - no go tester.


.35 - .45 OHMS is almost a short. Use the lowest resistance scale on the meter. Try another meter unless you have a Merc-O-Tronic Magneto Analyzer sitting on the shelf.

What you're measuring is the resistance of a 50 or 60 foot length of wire. It isn't much. If it isn't showing an open, the wire is good. One more thing to check is that the wire isn't shorted to the stator frame. Check the resistance between either lead and a bare spot on the frame for an open.

The last thing that could be bad with the stator is wire coils can be shorted in the wire wraps. Unless you have a Merc-O-Tronic Magneto Analyzer sitting on the shelf, about the only way to check that is with a running motor and measure the stator output AC voltage and rectifier output DC voltage. I'm not sure what the AC voltage should be, 30 - 40 VAC and increases as the RPM are raised, I think. The rectifier should be about 13 VDC above idle and increasing as the motor is revved to about 15 or 16 VDC. Your manual should have another chart with the correct voltages using a Merc-O-Tronic Magneto Analyzer.


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Thanks a bunch for the help! To clarify, I actually read about 1 Ohm on my little el-cheap-o analog meter. I have a fluke digital, but it's not sensitive enough. And I did check to make sure it wasn't shorted to the frame, so I'm thinking the stator is probably o.k. now. As I said before, at first glance I thought the range in the book was on some random Merc-o-tronic scale, but I missed the forest for the trees. It clearly states in black and white... "Ohm's". Need to slow down I guess.

As far as getting the flywheel off without cutting the belt. I did initially remove the flange and take the belt off of the mag pulley to get some slack. It still didn't seem to want to come off, but I think you've answered my question. I didn't want to break anything (especially that stator) and didn't pull very hard. I just noticed resistance and wan't sure if the drive pulley would come through the stator with the belt still intact. From what you've told me it will, so I will spend a little more time getting it out next time. (hopefully it won't be too soon!!!) Thanks again for the help!. So far this morning I've got the magneto and carbs back on. Fixing to start on the fuel pumps.

P.S. I did also check the bearings in the mag adapter while I had the belt off. They were smooth as silk. :joyous: Thanks for the heads up.

 

[MPrimeaux]

Made a little progress yesterday. Finished up the wiring and re-installation of everything. Did the best I could with the wiring, it was pretty rough and didn't want to take solder very well. It all rings out ok, hope it'll work. Going to try to rig something up to set timing today and hopefully put a water hose on it and try to crank it. I feel I need to explain things a little. I titled this thread "1963 Mercury 650 Restoration" . I have every intention of taking this engine down again and doing a full resto on it, but first I want to make sure it's going to run. I also still need to put the boat in the water with a fuel tank, battery, etc. in it to see how it sits in the water before I start on the boat glass work. I'm a little worried that the extra weight from the engine might make the aft sit a little low in the water, in which case I plan to glass some supports in the bow for the fuel tank. Going a little slower than I anticipated..... mainly due to life! (I've read that MOST of these projects do) Since I purchased this boat and motor, I've got my first grand daughter and my baby started college. That's kinda eating into my play money!

 

[GA_Boater]

About timing - Don't mess with it. If you didn't change the length of the rod from the throttle arm to the magneto or change the three idle/timing screws, it is the way is still timed from the factory. Timing doesn't change.

When the timing belt was reinstalled, did you make sure #1 was at TDC and the arrow under the timing pulley was pointing directly at the center of the crankshaft, at the flywheel key? That's all you should have to worry about for timing.

One wire missing, MP. The kill wire from the remote control. Without it you can't shut off the motor from the remote;







The 1966 note is about the wire color - Pre-66 it's salmon and post-66 it's white.

 

[MPrimeaux]

About timing - Don't mess with it. If you didn't change the length of the rod from the throttle arm to the magneto or change the three idle/timing screws, it is the way is still timed from the factory. Timing doesn't change.

When the timing belt was reinstalled, did you make sure #1 was at TDC and the arrow under the timing pulley was pointing directly at the center of the crankshaft, at the flywheel key? That's all you should have to worry about for timing.

One wire missing, MP. The kill wire from the remote control. Without it you can't shut off the motor from the remote;







The 1966 note is about the wire color - Pre-66 it's salmon and post-66 it's white.

Well.... dang.... I wish I would have checked this thread before I started. I have since installed the missing wire you mentioned. I have also already lost the spark advance position. :facepalm: That is why I returned to my computer. I've got an issue I need some help with. First, your question about the alignment marks.... yes I did line up the arrow and the timing mark on the flywheel when replacing the timing belt, no I didn't change the length of the rod from the throttle arm, but I I did back the spark advance stop all the way out to attempt to make sure it was set correctly. The book says to to set the #1 piston to .222 BTDC, then advance the mag until the points break, then set the spark advance stop there. I built a tool to find TDC and then adjust a screw using a set of calipers to measure in .222, but when I advance the mag, the points do not open. There is one part of this procedure that I'm not positive that I followed to the "tee". There is a line in the manual that says to install the magneto with the timing marks pointing at each other (indicating TDC). I'm not sure that I did that, but with the blank spline, I the mag will only mesh in one spot. I can't image that would make any difference. Any ideas? I REALLY hate to pull everything back apart... anyone see something obvious (like the missing kill wire) that I am doing wrong?

 

[MPrimeaux]

So, further investigation shows that with leads connected to the ground terminal and the frame of the magneto, I never loose continuity. Trying to wrap my head around what's going on, but I'm wondering if I have this ground or the insulator washer on the terminal in the wrong place. I'm frustrated and not thinking so clearly, but I can't see where I would ever loose continuity with this set up. The ground strap from the mag to the engine casing is on the mag cover screw (which bonds the mag frame to the engine. The main ground terminal appears to be threaded through the mag frame.... am I missing something?

 

[MPrimeaux]

Well, I may have made a mountain out of a mole hill. I noticed that the needle on my little analog meter WAS moving.... just not much. I expected to see 0 Ohms and infinity.... It moved from 0 Ohms to about .5 Ohms 4 times per cycle. So I set the spark advance stop on the .5 Ohms (I'm assuming that's "open"). Does any of this make sense to anyone, or should I have gotten a true, open?

 

[racerone]

Well----.5 Ohms is NOT open.-----Open would show infinity !!