1961 Johnson Seahorse 40- Newbee -Runs rough heres my story.

[Portagee1]

Re: 1961 Johnson Seahorse 40- Newbee -Runs rough heres my story.

EDIT: While your compression numbers are great, any chance one/both compression relief valves may be slightly out of adjustment and leaking when that old beauty is under load off idle? Just a thought.

WOW! Thanks for all the susgestions guys (and Gals if there are any here tonight)
After all the help last night and a very early am wake up call: I went to bed dreaming of the day when this thing runs right

Today after a 4wheel brake job on a tractor trailer I bought the following factory parts and installed them and then took it to the river and tried it. The following is the results:
* Bought 2 new factory coils and installed with the new points I bought Monday. Also bought factory wires and boots, installed and even used the factory grease on the brand new plugs and rubbing alchol to slip the wires and springs inside the new boots. Points were set at 0.020" but that came later. Spark will jump 3/8"
While apart I found a piece of sheared key in the points area right by the screw. I cant prove it, but I bet that is why one cylinder was dead!
I used the tip about cleaning the flywheel and crank from old spun flywheel keys and then installed the points plate. A brand new key and torqued to 105ft lbs with my Snap-on 1/2" click type torque wrench. Wholy bajesus BatMan, that is way harder than it sounds.
I repacked that idle needle valve from the parts in the factory carb rebuild kit I also bought today. I tried start up and out of the water on the boat it ran beautiful! in the water...

Here is my results:

With the boat in the water it idles a little rough, but it is 40year + technology either way it is way better than yesterday. No smoke or miss, just a little rougher than I like. I let it warm up and hit the throttle and it hit a certain rpm and no more. It acted like I was trying to tow a barge or my boat is full of water. I tried to drain the carb and little fuel came out. The engine died. The fuel bulb would push fuel into the carb but slow (clogged fuel pump?)
While running the fuel would come out of the carb drain (yes I had the plug out while running) usually it pours out. I double checked my control cables and they worked fine, at full throttle the motor is acting like it is starving for fuel or it has a major restriction. If you ever installed a smaller carb on a large engine you will know exactly what I mean. As for the boat... new floor so I know it is dry and not filled with water. I even disconnected the coil black leads to the safety switches thinking maybe one is shorted to ground. No difference.

I know the next step is remove the fuel pump and check it out. With a totally new ignition and its timmed as good as it gets, fuel is my next step. How much is a new 40hp engine with controls?

Thank you to all who helped and welcoming me aboard! I appreciate it.
Joe

 

[samo_ott]

Re: 1961 Johnson Seahorse 40- Newbee -Runs rough heres my story.

Sounds like it's running on one cylinder. That is the standard symptom. Runs fine in a barrel and then tanks under load. When at a fast idle, remove one plug wire at a time and see if the engines runs at half speed or dies. If it does nothing then you have a dead cylinder. BTW, don't get zapped when you do this! Use a clean rag and a glove or a plug wire puller.

and yes, 105 ft pounds is REAL tough. That's why I hate pulling the flywheel on the 40hp's!

 

[Portagee1]

Re: 1961 Johnson Seahorse 40- Newbee -Runs rough heres my story.

Steve,

When you say "runs on one cylinder" do you mean there is an mechanical failure or ignition trouble? I've got to be doing something wrong is ignition cause its all new. Maybe a bad reed? I am over thinking this thing. It ran perfect when it went into storage and I moth balled it. What the heck could this be? Going out side to check the plugs now. it is driving me bonkers.

And I thought a Detroit Diesel 2 stroke bus engine running away backwards was insaine. (yes the old detroits could run backwards and the only way to stop them was to throw a very thick book ontop of the exhaust. Anything thin will just get sucked into the engine.

Joe

 

[samo_ott]

Re: 1961 Johnson Seahorse 40- Newbee -Runs rough heres my story.

Yes, it is usually ignition related. That's why pull one plug at a time and see what happens.

 

[Portagee1]

Re: 1961 Johnson Seahorse 40- Newbee -Runs rough heres my story.

OK I just went outside and pulled the plugs. Not only is the top cylinder plug all wet... it is not sparking. I swapped plugs and the lower plug was a nice dark tan and the wet plug on the lower cylinder is fine. What the heck? All I can figure is the black wire going to the points for shutdown is shorted to ground where it runs under the coil.

Whats your thoughts?

Joe

PS they are sending me a straight jacket tomorrow am.

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: 1961 Johnson Seahorse 40- Newbee -Runs rough heres my story.

Disconnect both of the black wires at the knife connectors to troubleshoot, if you think that is the problem. You can stop the motor by using the choke or by throwing a cat into the flywheel.

 

[Portagee1]

Re: 1961 Johnson Seahorse 40- Newbee -Runs rough heres my story.

I do believe the black wire is pinched or shorting out somewhere. It is all it can be honestly. All the wires from the switch (omc key switch) are disconnected. If running and I directly tie the two black wires togeter it dies.

Thanks for the help.
Joe

 

[Willyclay]

Re: 1961 Johnson Seahorse 40- Newbee -Runs rough heres my story.

If running and I directly tie the two black wires togeter it dies.

Joe, I think you have solved the mystery thanks to Steve (samo_ott) staying focused. Isolate the grounded wire with a VOM and let us know what else we can do to help. Hang in there, you almost have it whipped. Bill

 

[samo_ott]

Re: 1961 Johnson Seahorse 40- Newbee -Runs rough heres my story.

Unhook all the black wires and isolate the ignition. If it's still not sparking you gotta pull the flywheel and look inside. And putting it back on to 105 ft lbs is not easy!

 

[Portagee1]

Re: 1961 Johnson Seahorse 40- Newbee -Runs rough heres my story.

After all the mental thought, all the reading and all the flywheel un and off in my head; when you break down the ignition to its bare components you have the following for this dead cylinder:
1@ magnito coil- generate high elecron flow by a passing magnet
1@ breaker points and condensor- control the electron flow (switch) and the condensor stores energy
1@ Crankshaft cam lobe- Open and close the switch
1@ 14ga black sleeved wire to shut down the coil- path to eventual second coil to derail the process
1@ Flywheel magnet - this is the the means for potential energy to excite the coil
1@ flywheel timmimg key - keeps the magnet in the correct spot

If all is well, you have fire. That is as simple as it comes. Any one item not doing it's job at the correct moment and it has failed.
I've address all but the 14g sleeved wire.

In theory if an external coil 12v coil was to be placed on the engine (+) to key power via a balast resistor or internally balasted coil and the negitive hooked to the points. (mag coils removed) it would run but no advancement, if the plate is left in place to hold the points; you still have advancement. Does anyone sell a kit yet for this type of conversion? I do have a functioning generator at 10 amps. Coils pull very little like 2amps per. Could this work? I have a full day of work and will check the coil wire later today and give results (14ga black sleeve wire that is.

Thank you all again so very much,
Joe

 

[samo_ott]

Re: 1961 Johnson Seahorse 40- Newbee -Runs rough heres my story.

Too much work. I'd pull the flywheel and check the ignition. It's not that hard.

 

[Portagee1]

Re: 1961 Johnson Seahorse 40- Newbee -Runs rough heres my story.

OK, the final decision was made by Steve! Yea!

I called into my first customer and let them know I'm running late. I pulled the flywheel and found one of my new coils wrecked! It seems the green wire was not positioned properly and the fly wheel cut right thru it! So I installed one of the orginal coils after ohm checking it to the new ones. It matched perfectly. (just for the record it was 10 years old but had like 50hrs on it. No cracks or chafing. I dropped the flywheel back on by hand and with no plugs turned it over by hand. Spark is there but that one cylinder is weak. I went to recheck my point gap and I now need to buy a new feeler gauge set. I cant find mine. Yes I own a few sets.... at the shop not at home. So I will post back with results after it is fully together and back in the water.

I had the shorted to ground wire correct... just the wrong color. Lesson learned.
Joe

 

[Willyclay]

Re: 1961 Johnson Seahorse 40- Newbee -Runs rough heres my story.

Attaboy! As you suspected, it was something simple.

 

[samo_ott]

Re: 1961 Johnson Seahorse 40- Newbee -Runs rough heres my story.

Yay.

 

[Portagee1]

Re: 1961 Johnson Seahorse 40- Newbee -Runs rough heres my story.

Hey guys,

Thank you for the help. I ran it last night and did put up a post that did not take cause it gone. It ran awsome: idle, mid and top end was out of sight. No hesitation and the shake was gone.
Now who knows about putting nitrous on this thing? (LOL only kidding, every knows you cant add methanol injection AND Nitrous to this crank shaft )


Special thanks to Steve, Willy Clay I appreciated the hand holding thru this process. It is usually ME doing that for others. Karma is a great thing. When I get a moment I will post some pics on the Starcraft forum of my Arrow in action.... Popping wheelies and taken names.